Topic: Temporal Illusion and "The Joker" James Holmes

[McPhallus]

Sorry, bro, I'm not convinced!

Quite the contrary, I merely picked up what's already been thrown publicly out there by others, to sound them off here.  I did not advance any original theory coming from me about his temporal illusion connection.  The news media and other bloggers elsewhere did.  My original post merely raised questions for open discussion here.  I did not lay out any firm theory about the man to thrust down on people here.  Didn't you notice the many question marks I used in the thread's original post?

Do take the time to follow, view, read and scrutinize the active links to other sites embedded in my original post under this thread.  Those links say a lot, lot more than my own posts here have, particularly about Holmes' personal fascination with the concept of temporal illusion and his mental state.  Please check them out before accusing me of peddling a pet theory here. 

  (Sigh.)

[Oversoul]

Cool.  Glad you joined the discussion here...   

[ziznak]

It could all be fixed with a few well placed executions don't ya think?  Kill him publicly, violently, and make a few other examples... maybe people wouldn't go out blazing the innocents for 5 minutes of fame anymore.

[Sardondi]

I saw something that impressed me as great wisdom, particularly in light of how the usual media feeding frenzy has led to several major inaccuracies, including an absolutely astounding false accusation by a major network. Victor Davis Hanson, who writes about history and culture said, "I wish to know nothing about James Holmes other than the information necessary to try, convict, and punish him."

I intend on following his lead.

[The General]

Thoughts through his mind? How about prison rape? prison killing? Shock at the reality that HE made for himself.....the images of shooting at pregnant women and young children?


He is a narcissist and he is after sympathy. A man who puts red hair dye only wants attention and this guy is getting it. That nutjob Alex Jones is peddling the theory of another inside job. What a waste. Why didn't Alex Jones get a real job and apply that energy to finding a cure or solution for a real problem. All these conspiracies are part of the problem of America's decline, not it's strengthening.


As to withdrawing, I think he probably failed his comps and was given options that he didn't like. He seems like a loser to me, and instead of taking steps to fix himself, he took it out on others. God help this society. What a screwed up place America has become.

this is why you rock, FG.

[onan]

I have assessed a few people in the last couple of years with the diagnoses of DID. All of them seemed insecure and at times confused almost always disorganized in their thoughts.

That doesn't rule out the possibility of multiple personality... but I doubt it.

The guy is psychotic and a sociopath. High functioning evil. I am not sure there is any rational way to explain the guy.

Drugs, stress, bad family, or bad genes... I am not sure any of that lends to understanding. It is too bad we will spend time on due process. I say end him and do a complete autopsy. I am curious to see if there is any malignancy in his brain.

[The General]

Some news is slowly coming out about Holmes: about seeking some clinical help before, about using marijuana, about his neuroscience self-experimentations.  Also about drugs that may have been involved, Vicodin being one of them.  Like I said, his downhill slide may have been going on for several years now.  His parents may have known something about this.  Let's see what else unfolds.
 

Your avatar is making it impossible to take you seriously.  That and the squirrel chats.

[RealCool Daddio]

God help this society. What a screwed up place America has become.

I hope it's not too bad.  As of today, I am officially an expat Canadian and US resident.

[onan]

I hope it's not too bad.  As of today, I am officially an expat Canadian and US resident.

Grats to ya. Glad to have ya.

[Oversoul]

That pretty much sums it up for me. I think I'll bow out of this thread as a tribute to rational thought.

Yes, go do that, scum of the earth.  I can plainly see that THAT is what you are very good at -- bowing out . . . of life.  What a pathetic piece of clay you are. 

[Oversoul]

Your avatar is making it impossible to take you seriously.  That and the squirrel chats.

And does your avatar make you any more credible than a pompous ass? 

  Watch the finger point at you, General, sir!

You forget that a great mystic, Francis of Assisi, talked to many things other than squirrels.  But obviously, you are way steeped in too much of your false self system and the spiritual darkness and ignorance in which you are immersed, to know that.

El burro viejo general!

[Oversoul]

Anyone who kills is crazy. He is a murderer and that should not be overshadowed by mental illness. He was just a loser who couldn't cope.

Interesting assertions.

Would you say the exact same things of a war vet who suffers from PTSD, returns home, mentally snaps one day, and kills people under the trauma of his PTSD?  Would you consider the war vet a loser because he could not cope?  Would you similarly disregard the vet's PTSD mental condition?

[DangerousBlossom]

I wrote a serious reply to this topic, then went to a couple of other sites and returned to see that this thread had changed into a bit of a bickering match.  Or well, this is just a comment on the topic, not on any CoastGab posters!

Holmes looks like he is about to turn catatonic or totally withdrawn.  One can only wonder what thoughts are running through his mind.

Maybe: 'Gosh, I really f-ed up.  I am spending the rest of my life in jail.  Maybe I should have taken the Risperdal.'  He is about the age when schizophrenic symptoms start to show up.  (For males.  It is later for females.)  And high IQ doesn't mean you can't have schizophrenia.  Generally one's childhood is pretty normal, then one starts to have thinking problems.  I read somewhere that a classmate said, Hollmes’ grades were slipping and he was probably flunking out.

A co-worker of mine who married young, married a guy who everyone thought was wonderful.  But after a few years he started to have odd problems.  He was a delivery guy, not gifted, previously normal all around.  But he started to forget his routes and get weird ideas and obsessions (nothing violent in his case, but interfering with his life).  He saw a psychiatrist and was diagnosed with schizophrenia.  She was wondering why. I said it was often at least partly genetic.  The doctor had asked about family history, but didn’t explain why.  She was sort of relieved to hear this, since she was afraid it was her fault somehow.  Anyway, he was very open to “talk therapy” and meds and last I heard was doing fine in his job and they are still married.

So… hate to say "horses" when zebras are more interesting, but it could be pretty simple.

The only place I see something “odd,” is in the media coverage.  Why was Jared Loughner immediately (before anyone could know anything) denounced as a Right Wing Extremist, gun loving White Male, while no one has mentioned Holmes race or possible politics?

[Frys Girl]

Interesting assertions.

Would you say the exact same things of a war vet who suffers from PTSD, returns home, mentally snaps one day, and kills people under the trauma of his PTSD?  Would you consider the war vet a loser because he could not cope?  Would you similarly disregard the vet's PTSD mental condition?

What the hell?! You're weird. I'm through discussing this.

[Oversoul]

The only place I see something “odd,” is in the media coverage.  Why was Jared Loughner immediately (before anyone could know anything) denounced as a Right Wing Extremist, gun loving White Male, while no one has mentioned Holmes race or possible politics?

I've given that some thought too.  Can it have something to do with the victim(s) or intended victim(s)?

In the Loughner case, Loughner was clearly out to assassinate a political figure, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.  There was a clear motive for the killings.  He had singled her out for his victim; the other victims became sort of collateral damage to his primary motive to kill Giffords.  Giffords was a Democrat, female, and a supporter of gun rights.  Her profile provided a ready frame for characterizing Loughner as a political assassin.

In the Holmes case, there was no political figure involved, nor did Homes seek and target a political figure for his victim.  His victims were common folk randomly gunned down. There is no established clear motive for the attack on the moviegoers resulting in the wanton destruction of human lives.  The authorities are still trying to determine the motive of Holmes at this time.  Without a motive, there is nothing definitive with which to characterize Holmes as a killer.  You can't say he is a serial killer (as he hasn't killed previously) or a socio-political anarchist in the absence of a motive or agenda for the killings.  You can't say he is a mad killer as his mental insanity has not been formally established yet, and there are no medical records that might indicate an existing mental illness.

But don't take my opinion at face value: I'm supposed to be an irrational person who's experiencing my own temporal illusion and talking to cute lovable squirrels.   

[Oversoul]

Anyone who kills is crazy. He is a murderer and that should not be overshadowed by mental illness. He was just a loser who couldn't cope.

Interesting assertions.

Would you say the exact same things of a war vet who suffers from PTSD, returns home, mentally snaps one day, and kills people under the trauma of his PTSD?  Would you consider the war vet a loser because he could not cope?  Would you similarly disregard the vet's PTSD mental condition?

What the hell?! You're weird. I'm through discussing this.

You are being evasive!  Would you apply double standards then? 

(Let's not be like Noory: Quick to shoot from the hip.  Life is not all black and white; there are shades of grey in between.  That's why the legal system requires the due process of law.)

[b_dubb]

This thread makes me nauseous

[ziznak]

Oversoul had a long list of names in his "people to piss off" list today... lotsa coastgabbers apparently.  I'm counting what 3 people that have officially bailed out of this discussion due to maturity or immaturity. (As B. Wells might put it.) 

Obviously, I'm still reading along...
mostly for non-intellectual reasons... 100% activity bars don't come easy!

[BobGrau]

Oversoul had a long list of names in his "people to piss off" list today... lotsa coastgabbers apparently.  I'm counting what 3 people that have officially bailed out of this discussion due to maturity or immaturity. (As B. Wells might put it.) 

Obviously, I'm still reading along...
mostly for non-intellectual reasons... 100% activity bars don't come easy!

I'm still reading, but Ubersoul pulled spiritual rank on me earlier so I'm not allowed to offer opinions.

[Zircon]

"Speaking" or "talking" with non-humans doesn't require they respond in any know human tongue. When communicating with an animal, the "vibes" one emits, the soft and nonthreatening temperament in your voice is what is assessed by the listening creature. Also, the animal's familiarity with your presence and your behavior.

Animals are curious as are we. They have reason to be ready for a quick escape as you are larger than a dog or cat and they don't particularly care about any contact with them. I've also hand fed squirrels from by back porch deck when back in Washington state. Our backyard bordered a forest and we routinely had squirrels come up and grab shell peanuts from your fingers.

In my case, bird seed and uttering the same two to four syllable sounds (even a word now and then) in a quick chirpy manner (chirps, tweets, clicks) becomes familiar to them. The "koo" this one particular mockingbird sounded out was soft like my voice at the time (I was speaking softly to no one but myself and he eavesdropped). Seems like an attempted mimic as I've never heard a mockingbird make that soft sound before. Almost like a morning dove tone but softer.

And you put up the picture of Rocky. You defeat your own argument. Clearly Rocky could speak English as well as his sidekick Bullwinkle - and we haven't even discussed conversations with Moose yet. Did you open up a new can of worms there HAL? Haven't had a conversation with a skunk yet except to call it foul names and throw things at them when they spray.

People do communicate with animals - even wild ones. So go about your business as apparently you need to upgrade your processors before you get back from Jupiter.

[RealCool Daddio]

Grats to ya. Glad to have ya.

Thanks, pretty nice place you have here.  Not enough hockey rinks, and really expensive health care, but otherwise, you have done a great job with the place.  You guys (most of the forum members, anyway) should be proud to be Americans, and I mean that quite seriously.  Not in a jingoistic, NASCAR fan shouting U! S! A! at the top of his lungs kind of way, but for the important things - freedom to say and think what you want, a good standard of living, and a genuine desire to have the best country in the world.  Sure, there is room for improvement (seriously, more hockey rinks!), but it is not nearly as bad as FOX news, Rush Limbaugh, and the rest make it out to be.

[Zircon]

Geez! Another fucking liberal progressive!

[RealCool Daddio]

Geez! Another fucking liberal progressive!

I don't know, maybe I am.  It's hard to know where the line is these days.  I am happy to share where I stand on some issues, though:


Gay marriage - yes
Pro choice - yes, support a woman's right to choose, but hope she chooses life
Right to own a gun - yes
Restrictions on owning assault rifles, canons, SCUD missiles, tactical nukes - yes, please
Free markets, including free trade - yes
Separation of church and state - yes
Lower taxes, less government - yes
Islamism a real threat - yes


Can't think of many other "litmus test" issues at the moment, but feel free to ask them.

[Zircon]

I don't know, maybe I am.  It's hard to know where the line is these days.  I am happy to share where I stand on some issues, though:


Gay marriage - yes
Pro choice - yes, support a woman's right to choose, but hope she chooses life
Right to own a gun - yes
Restrictions on owning assault rifles, canons, SCUD missiles, tactical nukes - yes, please
Free markets, including free trade - yes
Separation of church and state - yes
Lower taxes, less government - yes
Islamism a real threat - yes


Can't think of many other "litmus test" issues at the moment, but feel free to ask them.

You're OK, just giving you a hard time "newbie". But Limbaugh in particular is right on the money. If you want to know about our government and its intrusion into our lives then I suggest reading the "faction" of Brad Thor. His latest, "Black List" is a must read. He pissed off the Muslims with "The Last Patriot". Beck even said he'd be dead in a year. Taking his concerns to heart he now has body guards. All the technology in this guy's fiction is REAL.

[RealCool Daddio]

You're OK, just giving you a hard time "newbie". But Limbaugh in particular is right on the money. If you want to know about our government and its intrusion into our lives then I suggest reading the "faction" of Brad Thor. His latest, "Black List" is a must read. He pissed off the Muslims with "The Last Patriot". Beck even said he'd be dead in a year. Taking his concerns to heart he now has body guards. All the technology in this guy's fiction is REAL.

By newbie you mean new to the US I presume.  Cause I have been on this site for years.


I must say, I don't listen to Limbaugh enough to know if he is right on the money or not, but what I have heard strikes me as reactionary and generally mean spirited.  What is it that he says that speaks to you (not a dig, just curious). 


Lastly, I mentioned Islamism, and meant it.  But Islamism is different from being a Muslim.  Kinda like the difference between being white and being a white supremist. 

[b_dubb]

Lastly, I mentioned Islamism, and meant it.  But Islamism is different from being a Muslim.  Kinda like the difference between being white and being a white supremist.

a tricky distinction.  we should develop a litmus test

[BobGrau]

I don't know, maybe I am.  It's hard to know where the line is these days.  I am happy to share where I stand on some issues, though:


Gay marriage - yes
Pro choice - yes, support a woman's right to choose, but hope she chooses life
Right to own a gun - yes
Restrictions on owning assault rifles, canons, SCUD missiles, tactical nukes - yes, please
Free markets, including free trade - yes
Separation of church and state - yes
Lower taxes, less government - yes
Islamism a real threat - yes


Can't think of many other "litmus test" issues at the moment, but feel free to ask them.

I'll take the test:
 
Gay marriage - yes, but 'marriage' is a religious institution and I don't see why they'd want to get involved.
Pro choice - yes, but the place is getting a bit crowded so could you maybe just cum on her tits?
Right to own a gun - I used to say no, but as I get older I lean more towards yes as far as handguns go.
Restrictions on owning assault rifles, canons, SCUD missiles, tactical nukes - yes, but that's what props up the global economy
Free markets, including free trade - yes
Separation of church and state - yes
Lower taxes, less government - I'd be happier to pay higher taxes if they were spent more sensibly. So I guess that's a no.
Islamism Fundamentalism of any sort a real threat - yes, and if you don't agree... well, fair enough.
 
Ultimately, I consider myself a liberal because I feel guilty if I walk past a homeless guy.
I don't mean I give him money, I just feel vaguely guilty for not feeling more guilty.

 
 

[Zircon]

"Mean Spirited" ... can word used by the left. He isn't mean as he is stating facts. His delivery may sound like a drill Sargent from time to time but he backs up his rhetoric with facts. He is very rarely challenged by those he goes after - they know better.

Oh I agree that being a Muslim doesn't mean you really into jihad. Never meant to imply that. I agree with you on this.

And am glad to see you took the plunge but watch out if this damn government doesn't come after you with a plunger depending upon how much money you make. Being an American is great and if you make money you're expected to pay for our nanny state.

Whatever you do don't vote for the current administration. Four more years of this and we're all slaves.

[RealCool Daddio]

"Mean Spirited" ... can word used by the left. He isn't mean as he is stating facts. His delivery may sound like a drill Sargent from time to time but he backs up his rhetoric with facts. He is very rarely challenged by those he goes after - they know better.

Oh I agree that being a Muslim doesn't mean you really into jihad. Never meant to imply that. I agree with you on this.

And am glad to see you took the plunge but watch out if this damn government doesn't come after you with a plunger depending upon how much money you make. Being an American is great and if you make money you're expected to pay for our nanny state.

Whatever you do don't vote for the current administration. Four more years of this and we're all slaves.

I am a visa holder, so I can't vote.  But if I could, it would be a tough decision for me. I think Obama has done a pretty mediocre job, when visionary change was promised.  But Romney seems like the type to use the office as a bully pulpit, which is not what the country needs now.


As for tax, yep, I am getting hammered, but a tiny bit better than in Canada.  Once I have a better handle on cost of living here - which so far seems quite a bit less - I will happily inform everyone on the relative quality of life here versus in Canada for a married, 3 kids, sole provider making 6 figures a year.

[Zircon]

I like your honesty Bob but "on her tits". WTF !!! Whats wrong with a good old blow job? You get off and she gets protein. Fuck, I'll take the test as well.
 
Gay marriage - I totally agree with Bob on this one.
Pro choice - Other than severe flaws, rape or incest - NO. Partial birth abortion - Murder charges against mother and doctors.
Right to own a gun - YES on anything short of military issue weaponry.
Free markets, including free trade - YES, IN THEORY but not the way slave labor is currently being exploited.
Separation of church and state - YES< protect the church "from the state" like our framer's wrote it.
Lower taxes, less government - Bob, we pay $49K/second here in the states. "Sensible spending" is impossible in the system we current operate with. REBOOT THIS FUCKING ABORTION CALLED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT !!!
Islamism a real threat - Only those who will not renounce "jihad". INSA, CAIR, MB => OUT !!!
 
Ultimately, I consider myself a conservative as change occurs with time. Unfortunately others have defined what a "conservative" is rather than asking a conservative. Change with caution and only when you've sufficiently investigated the anticipated results and a net positive gain seems most likely. If not then rethink what it is you're trying to improve.