Author Topic: Condolences to George  (Read 1706 times)

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morphiaflow

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Re: Condolences to George
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2011, 04:36:25 PM »
Thanks Bones. I'm actually on my way to see her right now. There's a great disparity of political beliefs in my family and among my friends, but as you say, when it comes down to it we are all human and at the core, we have more in common than not. (Indeed I'd say the LACK of that understanding, from persons and parties of ALL political stripes, is a big part of the problem with lack of civil discourse.) And in the case of my family right now, only Mom matters. I truly appreciate your kind words and I wish you and yours all the very best.


HAL 9000

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Re: Condolences to George
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2011, 06:05:46 PM »
I lost my Mother in 2003 from an awful drawn out battle with cancer. My family saw it coming and I knew it was going to happen. When it did, I was horribly distraught and struggling to deal with it. During this time I continued my studies, and I wrote final exams a week later though it was difficult for me to leave the house. Does that make me a narcissist as well?

I suppose I expected most readers to read my mind, or fill in the blanks - which I should not have.

As many here might know, earlier this year, my mother died in my arms, literally. We all knew the time would come, but never expected it to be only a few days after we received the news of her condition. Seeing the life leave my mom's body haunts me to this day - and even though I deal with life and death of babies every day, it is much different so close to home.

Here is where I draw the line: I suspect that your and many other folks' conditions may be such that not much choice may be at hand when dealing with life/death events; one must therefore be pragmatist. But when one is rich, and has choices - choices as to money, time, place, etc., and one THEN still elects to continue their job, WHEN NOTHING ELSE IS PRESSING, yes, I'd consider that person to be numbnuts.

Now, if that's their way of "coping," then I say, OK, that's their method of coping, but it sure smells like bullshit to me.

Noory is/was in a position of great privilege (money/time/place/opportunity), yet he chose to do his radio show (do one for the "Gipper"), rather than immediately hop on a plane to be with his family.

So I recognize there are times when one must be pragmatic - and I think I even gave Brett Favre  a pass a few years ago when he went ahead and played an NFL game the same day he learned of his dad's death, but I think for most, all other things considered, if one has the means, one should not work "one more shift" in place of being with family.

For this I still give Noory the dumbfuck award, yet still receive my condolences.

Frys Girl

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Re: Condolences to George
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2011, 07:01:47 PM »
Thanks Bones. I'm actually on my way to see her right now. There's a great disparity of political beliefs in my family and among my friends, but as you say, when it comes down to it we are all human and at the core, we have more in common than not. (Indeed I'd say the LACK of that understanding, from persons and parties of ALL political stripes, is a big part of the problem with lack of civil discourse.) And in the case of my family right now, only Mom matters. I truly appreciate your kind words and I wish you and yours all the very best.
I'm sorry you're going through such a difficult time. I hope your mom doesn't suffer much and that you can enjoy these times you have with her. Good luck to your family, and God bless!

WOTR

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Re: Condolences to George
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2011, 12:39:01 AM »
I lost my Mother in 2003 from an awful drawn out battle with cancer. My family saw it coming and I knew it was going to happen. When it did, I was horribly distraught and struggling to deal with it. During this time I continued my studies, and I wrote final exams a week later though it was difficult for me to leave the house. Does that make me a narcissist as well?
I think Hal and I have a different take on things (not that the opinions of strangers on an internet forum are really something that you should care too much about when it comes to topics such as this.)  I disagree that you need to follow any formula (including taking the time off if possible) to satisfy somebodies ideal of how you should grieve.  I disagree that every family needs everybody to be present. 

WOTR

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Re: Condolences to George
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2011, 01:55:48 AM »
First off, AO; I apologize for the last post.  The main point that I wanted to get across is that grieving in any manner that you saw fit and getting through life the best you can is perfect.  She was your mother, it was your love and whatever decisions you made through the days and weeks following your loss are not for others to judge.  I feel that I came across really poorly but find myself unable to alter or delete it.

I suppose I expected most readers to read my mind, or fill in the blanks - which I should not have.

As many here might know, earlier this year, my mother died in my arms, literally. We all knew the time would come, but never expected it to be only a few days after we received the news of her condition. Seeing the life leave my mom's body haunts me to this day - and even though I deal with life and death of babies every day, it is much different so close to home.

Here is where I draw the line: I suspect that your and many other folks' conditions may be such that not much choice may be at hand when dealing with life/death events; one must therefore be pragmatist. But when one is rich, and has choices - choices as to money, time, place, etc., and one THEN still elects to continue their job, WHEN NOTHING ELSE IS PRESSING, yes, I'd consider that person to be numbnuts.

Now, if that's their way of "coping," then I say, OK, that's their method of coping, but it sure smells like bullshit to me.
Just for fun I am going to argue.  Please don't worry about offending me (between Aspergers and ADD I promise you that I am not easily offended and really do prefer somebody telling me the truth rather than trying to spare feelings.)

My father was in a major accident.  He lingered in a coma for two months with no hope.  Regrettably, he was only on full life support for the first couple of weeks and did stabilize after that (it would have been easier to pull the plug than pull the feeding tube.)  I did have to take a few hours off work at various times to prearrange some things being as I pretty much knew to the exact day when he would die.  I planned the funeral, did the "handouts", booked a minister, booked the venue and the caterer.  I did things in (what I later learned) was a very nontraditional manner.  This made it so that I had to contact the coroner , two funeral homes and the registarer of death at a hospital as well.

Through all of that I kept working.  It was not that I had to (I could afford to take the time off, but chose not to.)  I spent enough time trapped in my mind at night that I did not want more time in the day.  I saw the family at points but I am not somebody able to offer comfort.  There were enough family members who were able to that having the guy looking at things logically was not a necessary addition to have there full time. 

I was the one who had to explain to my grandparents that although dad was in a coma when he was 17 and woke up that it would not be the case this time.  I had to interpret the doctors words and break their hope.  I spent the nights at the hospital and later the hospice (amazing how visiting hours don't apply to somebody who is completely unresponsive.) I showed up after a nap each night, pulled his eye open and waved hello to a completely blank stare.  I would spend quite a few hours there, kiss him goodnight and go to my job.  The last night, I looked into the blank stare, waved hello and did not kiss him goodnight until he took his last breath later during the visit.

I was somebody who had always said that I could not understand how Terri Schiavo's family could have done what they did.  I would never have protested and added to their pain, but I always said that I could not kill a loved one as they had.  When I did exactly that it took a toll.  I kept working and would go home to an empty house to play an excellent game of self hatred and loathing.  I really did not need the time off work to be alone with my thoughts.  Insomnia provided me all the time that I needed to be awake and despising myself while the world slept and was absent.

Through it all I did more than my "duty".  I suppose that I failed in being with the family all day every day.  I took care of all the details and the logistics and provided the "rock" who was capable of thought from the first hour and could complete what needed to be done while others were busy crying to each other.  I did "fall apart" a few times at home, in private.  In public, I was the one who could take charge of the situation.

For me it is more difficult and draining to be around people (especially emotions) and trying to figure them out.  I did the best that I could and did continue working to provide myself some downtime away from the situation.

My job was my savior at that point.  Perhaps you still believe that I should have spent more time with the family fulfilling some imaginary "duty", but every family member has different roles.  Mine is not to comfort and console; something that I am completely incapable of.  I may be considered for asshat of the year award for continuing to work when it was not necessary.  However, I feel that I would have hit a more severe depression that I would not have pulled myself out of had I not continued with the parts of my life (including my job) that I did.The fact of the matter is that it may smell like bullshit to you... I can only tell you that I did the best that I could.  There is nothing that I would change even if I could return to that time in my life.

HAL 9000

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Re: Condolences to George
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2011, 03:04:16 AM »
Just for fun I am going to argue.  Please don't worry about offending me (between Aspergers and ADD I promise you that I am not easily offended and really do prefer somebody telling me the truth rather than trying to spare feelings.)

Very nice and thoughtful post. As you mentioned though, for the sake of argument, I'd offer these observations:

You were there! YOU WERE THE ROCK - the one who took charge, and did what had to be done. Other members of your family were available on a perhaps more emotional/grieving level - you seemed stoic, kept it inside as you took charge and took care of the "details."

It just seems to fit the continuing pattern: Noory always makes it a point to say (paraphrasing), "I'll be doing the (fill in the holiday) show live for my Coast listeners" in an attempt to (failingly) show his commitment ( I view it as a weakness).

While I completely recognize everyone handles emergency events differently, so far, the facts as I know them still lead me to believe (from my perspective obviously) that Noory should have hopped on a plane and done SOMETHING - even if it was just being there for the rest of his family, and perhaps out of respect to the one who helped give you life. But noooooooo... Noory decides "the show must go on!" - epic radio show FAIL (to the extent one could consider what Noory broadcasts as "a show.")

Addendum: In our Unit, we have made a moral and ethical decision to NEVER stop feedings (AKA staring) to hasten death (maybe it's different for adults at our institution). The criteria for ceasing continued life support is simply based on one fact: there must be at least one major-organ system failure. So if there is no hope for continued life, brain death (as measured by EEG), respiratory failure, kidney failure, etc., would qualify for withdrawing life support - but we do not consider feeding (enterally, parenterally, NGT/OGT/PEG) as extraordinary life support measures. To be honest, usually, even if the intestinal tract is functioning normally, end-of-life decisions (at least for babies in our unit) are made for us - the little ones hang on for a while, but nature usually takes its course.

 :'(

WOTR

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Re: Condolences to George
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2011, 06:23:40 AM »
I like your post... It adds a little more to think about.  I will skip the Noory part: we may just have to disagree on that.  I had never really thought of myself as having been there for the family; interesting to think about.

I am happy that in an area of the hospital that deals with kids you don't allow that decision.  When it comes to children I can not imagine that you wouldn't give them every chance.  They have never been allowed to put their thoughts and ideas into words.

In the hospital that dad ended up in the person who fulfilled the role of psychiatrist / adviser (I don't recall what they called her) more than encouraged us to pull the tube.  She outright pushed (and pushed hard with three individual meetings where she pulled no punches to the point of indignant anger because I would not agree.)  She had nothing but contempt for me not having allowed his death as early as possible.  In the end she asked if I would leave the decision to her department so that I would have no guilt.  I outright laughed at her and told her that it would be my making the decision by proxy.

In the end, I had to take dads request into consideration.  It was as though he knew his end through his entire life and had made it clear on dozens of occasions that he wanted to be tossed out of the hospital window rather than linger with a nurse changing his diaper for eternity. 

When I said that I would not change a thing I lied.  When the decision was made to stop feeding his doctor excused himself and turned over care to another doctor.  I wish I would have asked him why... did he feel there was hope, did he morally disagree with that decision for any reason or was there something that the head nurse and adviser were not disclosing (both of them pushed hard to end his care.)

In the end, I applaud your facility and unit for not pushing to rush a persons end.  They had treated dads pneumonia two days before asking us to pull the feeding tube.  I never understood why they didn't ask us then if we would just let the disease run it's course (hopefully resulting in a natural death instead of one where we played an active part.)  As you said, there is no doubt that natural causes will often make the decision despite your hard work.

On a side note; I wish that the medical professions would not work so hard to try to shield the family from what is really going on.  Finally, one of the nurses asked if I would leave so she could do some maintenance (not diapers, just related to the medical care.)  I told her that I was fine with it and offered to help turn him (she was small and was struggling a little.)  It was interesting to see her pulling the stomach contents out and measure them to determine how much to add and drawing the blood while explaining the tests (potassium? and others???)  I know not everybody wants to see that, but it is reality and there isn't a reason to try so hard to hide it.

HAL 9000

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Re: Condolences to George
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2011, 02:35:09 AM »
Gabriel Noory's funeral arrangements:
http://www.hackettmetcalf.com/obituaries/Gabriel-Noory/#/Obituary

Snoory's parents, August 2010:

b_dubb

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Re: Condolences to George
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2011, 05:06:48 PM »
creepy thread. especially considering the URL - gnsdotcom