Topic: I have to admit, I admire Vladimir Putin

[The General]

Not his politics, but at least he puts his own country and people first.  Wish we had a leader that would do that.  Besides, he's a badass.  Our president is definitely not.  Exhibits A and B: Putin vacationing and Obama vacationing.  The only thing missing from Obama's attire is some kneepads and a Spongebob Squarepants backpack.  Damn this country needs a badass nationalist in the worst way.

[Frys Girl]

I agree!!!!

Americans can't handle a guy like Putin. Here, we like our men weak and emasculated. Here, we don't appreciate men like Putin. Nationalists aren't appreciated much in most of the world, until colonialism and occupation take hold, but with globalism taking over, especially here in the USA, nationalism is frowned upon and independence isn't sought after by citizens.

Russians love their country for a bunch of reasons, but most of all because they know they have the natural resources and will to exploit them in order to not have to make nice with jackasses like the Saudi unroyal family.


My guess is that Putin has smelled lots of weakness in the USA and he's going to exploit it. I wish we had smarter governors.

[Frys Girl]

Another thing I wanted to mention. I remember during the last election, people were impressed with Obama because he had an international background, i.e. he was so much better than McCain because he spent a semester or something in Pakistan. Who the hell cared other than the media or NPR? Really made a difference, huh? Those Taliban and Al Qaeda dudes are definitely closer to having their hands on the nukes. American soldiers are dying due to Pakistani sourced terror plots. The list goes on. Worst of all: people are calling for a war with Iran and Obama has his cankly Secretary of State threatening war with Iran every other weekend on Meet the Prostitutes Press. Guess that "international" background wasn't worth jack.

[Michael Vandeven]

i don't think i've ever read a thread on this forum that i agreed with more.  except the slam on the saudis.  i have to part ways with you, there.

[b_dubb]

remember Putin was the head of the KGB. what you think you know about Putin has been carefully crafted to shape your response

[The General]

remember Putin was the head of the KGB. what you think you know about Putin has been carefully crafted to shape your response

I'm not talking politics here, really.  I just mean that his presence as a strong and decisive masculine nationalistic leader is something we sorely lack in the USA. 

[Eddie Coyle]

  I just mean that his presence as a strong and decisive masculine nationalistic leader is something we sorely lack in the USA.

     Something we've lacked for a very long time, Teddy Roosevelt fit the description-in terms of being an alpha male, but was highly internationalist. Maybe Eisenhower...but he was in bad health for much of his second term...and not really a nationalist.

[The General]

     Something we've lacked for a very long time, Teddy Roosevelt fit the description-in terms of being an alpha male, but was highly internationalist. Maybe Eisenhower...but he was in bad health for much of his second term...and not really a nationalist.

Reagan was, in my opinion.   Especially at first, despite his being quite old.

[Vatar]

Reagan was, in my opinion.   Especially at first, despite his being quite old.

Reagan may have been an alpha male and had amazing foreign policy but he played too much ball with liberals on the matters of domestic policy look at the Hughes amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act it's a disgrace to the second amendment and the principals this country was founded on.

[Eddie Coyle]

Reagan was, in my opinion.   Especially at first, despite his being quite old.

     At first he gave off that impression. But,IMO, Reagan's image was severely damaged by his Middle East meddling- 270 Marines murdered in Lebanon in 1983-84, 25 Americans taken hostage-the disasterous plan to get them freed-which should have lead to his impeachment, a CIA chief murdered(Bill Buckley)in 1984...our bombing Libya to no real effect in 1986, which lead to Khadafy's farewell gift to Reagan in Dec,1988-the Pan Am 103 bombing over Lockerbie.

     

[b_dubb]

Reagan may have been an alpha male and had amazing foreign policy but he played too much ball with liberals on the matters of domestic policy look at the Hughes amendment to the Firearm Owners Protection Act it's a disgrace to the second amendment and the principals this country was founded on.

he may have done this out of respect for James Brady

[Avi]

remember Putin was the head of the KGB. what you think you know about Putin has been carefully crafted to shape your response

Yes, it was a PR firm that created Putin's image in the USA. What you see is photo-shopped fakery. It is very surprising to me that Americans take his image seriously; Russians certainly do not.

Moreover, I do not think the longing for an "alpha-male leader" is particularly healthy, either. I can see why it is appealing in a country whose population has such a tremendously prolonged adolescence - still looking for Big Daddy to bail them out. That's all sorts of exciting - not! How about Hannibal Lecter for President! What's not to love about a liver-eating tough-guy who makes Popeye look like a vegetarian wimp? No? Outside of the movies and PR manipulations, tough-guys don't exist. Oh, yeah: Santa Claus isn't real, either.

[Silent]

If Putin were the U.S. President how would he have handled 9/11 do you think?  How would he consider Iran?  I'm just trying to guage what is meant by Nationalist and Alpha-Male.  The former I think I understand and can relate to, the later not so much.  Is an alpha-male personality a pre-requisite to being a nationalist?  I wouldn't think so but I'd like opinions on this.  If they're not synonyms then why would adding that trait be desired?

Lots of questions, I know.  I've been thinking about this thread for a while here though and wondering if my defintions of the two terms might be wrong.

[Frys Girl]

If Putin were the U.S. President how would he have handled 9/11 do you think?  How would he consider Iran?  I'm just trying to guage what is meant by Nationalist and Alpha-Male.  The former I think I understand and can relate to, the later not so much.  Is an alpha-male personality a pre-requisite to being a nationalist?  I wouldn't think so but I'd like opinions on this.  If they're not synonyms then why would adding that trait be desired?

Lots of questions, I know.  I've been thinking about this thread for a while here though and wondering if my defintions of the two terms might be wrong.

To me, your questions prove that you don't get it. Nationalism is a response to foreign entanglements. It is a solution. I want someone who doesn't care about Iran or 9-11. A degree down from obsessed would be a start. I want leaders who are concerned about AMERICA and her alone. There are so many problems here that are not dealt with because of our obsession with foreign affairs, and even at that our leaders suck. I'm tired of seeing which leaders in America can lick the boots of other countries, namely Israel, or discuss bombing to bits other countries to prove to Americans how tough they are.


Leaders here should put America first, second, and last. Also, even if those pictures are PR firm created, I think it is interesting still, that Putin understands the importance of these qualities.

[Silent]

To me, your questions prove that you don't get it. Nationalism is a response to foreign entanglements. It is a solution. I want someone who doesn't care about Iran or 9-11. A degree down from obsessed would be a start. I want leaders who are concerned about AMERICA and her alone. There are so many problems here that are not dealt with because of our obsession with foreign affairs, and even at that our leaders suck. I'm tired of seeing which leaders in America can lick the boots of other countries, namely Israel, or discuss bombing to bits other countries to prove to Americans how tough they are.

I see.  Yeah I wasn't really looking at it the right way.  So is Nationalistic foreign relations an oxymoron?

[Silent]

Or perhaps non-sequitur is the right word?

[Frys Girl]

Vladimir Putin: PR Genius

[Frys Girl]

except the slam on the saudis.  i have to part ways with you, there.

Actually, I gotta hand it to the Saudis for pwning our foreign policy and trade relations. They are using those billions in good ways. It's not just paying for the royal family's escapades in Ibiza and Rome. The Saudi government pays their students' tuition and rent and stipend to go abroad to any university to study. These guys are getting free education and travel. In our country, the youth get their meth addiction rehab paid for.

[The General]

Is an alpha-male personality a pre-requisite to being a nationalist?  I wouldn't think so but I'd like opinions on this.  If they're not synonyms then why would adding that trait be desired?

Someone who projects strength instead of weakness and indecision on both domestic and international affairs would be my preference.  It doesn't have to be a male.  Remember Margaret Thatcher?  Golda Meir?  Our politicians tend to think that they need to be all things to all people and consequently walk a fine line in an attempt to be moderate. 

[Silent]

Someone who projects strength instead of weakness and indecision on both domestic and international affairs would be my preference.  It doesn't have to be a male.  Remember Margaret Thatcher?  Golda Meir?  Our politicians tend to think that they need to be all things to all people and consequently walk a fine line in an attempt to be moderate.

That makes sense to me.  I had a little different definition I'm used to thinking of.  Different enough to make me do a double take and wonder what you guys meant.

I'm sure someday I'll hear Alpha-Person.  I wasn't assuming the personality was male only and didn't think you meant that either.  I've known plenty of alpha-females, maybe more than males.

Now that I understand what you mean I can agree with you.  This is a big problem I have with politics and contributes to my indifference.  Our issues domestically and over seas I find a fascinating subject to discuss and think about.  Once a discussion comes around to what the government will do about things is when I lose interest.  It feels like when you wander into the fiction section of the library while doing research.  It's irrelevant.  Rarely do politicians actually take a stand and work to resolve issues.  When they do, the beneficiaries most often aren't Americans.

[The General]

Vladimir Putin: PR Genius

That's an awesome video.  We should be doing the same.  And I don't see the problem with a finely crafted macho image for a leader of a world power.  We don't do that.  I'd love to see footage of Obama at the shooting range or practicing martial arts.  But guess what, he doesn't, and he wouldn't.  He HAS a finely crafted PR image, but it's one of submission.  Women rule over him in his life.  The most masculine image we've seen is the photo of him smoking, but they tried to photoshop that out and deny that he smokes so as not to tarnish his image as a gelded, soft spoken intellectual. He throws like a girl and bows to other world leaders in submission.

[Michael Vandeven]

Also, even if those pictures are PR firm created, I think it is interesting still, that Putin understands the importance of these qualities.

a brilliant way to wrap up that post.

[Avi]

I think the former head of the KGB is no slouch when it comes to manipulation of the public, here or there - that is part and parcel of what he's been doing during the political upheavals of the last few decades. He had to turn a grossly corrupt (under his leadership) intelligence service into a grossly corrupt, newly-capitalist mafia oligarchy - and when that went sour, back into a grossly corrupt intelligence operation again. The man is definitely not stupid, simply because he has survived this long. And this tough guy doesn't go anywhere without a huge cadre of special operations protection, even when he films a fishing video. The next star of River Monsters, Vlad the Putin.

Nonetheless, I remain troubled by the romanticization of such an individual. Actions which the American public may view as "strong," are viewed by Russians as corrupt - even though Russians are down with the strong leader thing to an horrific fault. Saying this does not mean I don't think Obama is a useless twit, but how is fawning over the Putinsky any different from the way Obama's fans fawned over him?

Best Fishing Bloopers by Bill Dance

[The General]

And this tough guy doesn't go anywhere without a huge cadre of special operations protection, even when he films a fishing video.

Of course.  A powerful world leader needs constant protection.  They all do.  That changes nothing, doesn't add to the conversation, and is really a red herring.  It makes me wonder if you have read any of the above posts.

Saying this does not mean I don't think Obama is a useless twit, but how is fawning over the Putinsky any different from the way Obama's fans fawned over him?

Again, I think you lack an understanding of the conversation that we're having here.  No one is fawning over Putin.  We're saying that he projects an image that is to be respected, does it intentionally and successfully, and that we sorely lack that in our leaders here. 

[Avi]

Of course.  A powerful world leader needs constant protection.  They all do.  That changes nothing, doesn't add to the conversation, and is really a red herring.  It makes me wonder if you have read any of the above posts.
Again, I think you lack an understanding of the conversation that we're having here.  No one is fawning over Putin.  We're saying that he projects an image that is to be respected, does it intentionally and successfully, and that we sorely lack that in our leaders here.

Maybe you're right. But I am glad that not everyone thinks the same way. It's more interesting.

[Flaxen Hegemony]

Nonetheless, I remain troubled by the romanticization of such an individual. Actions which the American public may view as "strong," are viewed by Russians as corrupt - even though Russians are down with the strong leader thing to an horrific fault. Saying this does not mean I don't think Obama is a useless twit, but how is fawning over the Putinsky any different from the way Obama's fans fawned over him?

It would be interesting to compare Putin's "favorability" rating in the USA in late 2011 vs. early 2002, when Bush was near his peak. Although the political dynamics change quite a bit over a decade, I'd bet that Americans would like Putin far less in 2002, because Bush filled the public's need for a strong leader.  The traits seen lacking in our current leader become more desirable, and when we see them in another, we like them more.

[analog kid]

He just gave a speech somewhere, and the audience booed him, so he had the video censored. Popularity isn't relevant to your point, but it makes me wonder how much more of him is farcical.

[Treading Water]

Maybe you're right. But I am glad that not everyone thinks the same way. It's more interesting.

Actually, your fishing bloopers are exactly how I feel about the current crop of "politicos".  (And the previous, if truth be told.)
I would invite nary a one of 'em into my home.

[b_dubb]

A lot of the "tough as nails stuff" is staged. Like the relics he recovered while scuba diving. He has photographers and videographers with him constantly to help shape his image

[Eddie Coyle]

 
    Ironically, the leader we had who ran the KGB's counterpart was viewed as a "wimp".