Topic: The Debunking Thread

[Avi]

1. Anti-vaccination kooks. Vaccines work by obtaining immunity in a preponderance of the population. Yes, it may very well be that you've never been vaccinated and never gotten sick (the claim of all the un-vaccinated), but that's because everyone else around you has been vaccinated. That said, supervision and care must be exercised over vaccine preparation, but still, tetanus, mumps, polio, measles, small pox, etc., suck in a big way.

2. End-Times Madness. How many millennial predictions have failed? Why, thousands (Ha!)! Jesus, the Mahdi, Elvis, sundry messiahs - they're all just another Once and Future King. I know that your millennial movement is different. This time, it's the real deal. Yah, sure.

3. Abiotic Oil. A few molecules of abiotic oil may have been generated somewhere, in all of the chemical reactions in the universe, but abiotic oil is in even shorter supply than that generated from biotic material, with or without dinosaurs.

4. Psychics. Who needs them? When it comes to the future, you're going to find out, anyway. Who needs remote viewing when everybody's got a webcam and a video on YouTube? Satellite surveillance can peek inside your bathroom window and read the brand of toilet paper you use. Beat that, Ed or Louis or the Twins or Carnac the Magnificent.

[Flaxen Hegemony]

1. Anti-vaccination kooks. Vaccines work by obtaining immunity in a preponderance of the population. Yes, it may very well be that you've never been vaccinated and never gotten sick (the claim of all the un-vaccinated), but that's because everyone else around you has been vaccinated. That said, supervision and care must be exercised over vaccine preparation, but still, tetanus, mumps, polio, measles, small pox, etc., suck in a big way.

I was PI on a medical contract that involved analyzing the rates and changes of immunizations across years, race, SES, etc., and it was unfortunate to see that the skepticism was actually higher amongst populations less likely to have access to quality health care. 

2. End-Times Madness. How many millennial predictions have failed? Why, thousands (Ha!)! Jesus, the Mahdi, Elvis, sundry messiahs - they're all just another Once and Future King. I know that your millennial movement is different. This time, it's the real deal. Yah, sure.

A great read is Charles Mackay's "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and Madness of Crowds".  Some chapters deal with end times nonsense, others with charlatans and mass hysteria.  The clear take-home message is that people haven't changed that much over many years in the way they con others, or their willingness to believe such cons.

4. Psychics. Who needs them? When it comes to the future, you're going to find out, anyway. Who needs remote viewing when everybody's got a webcam and a video on YouTube? Satellite surveillance can peek inside your bathroom window and read the brand of toilet paper you use. Beat that, Ed or Louis or the Twins or Carnac the Magnificent.

I tell my classes that psychic phenomena are real, just present only a small percentage of the time, and varying from day to day.  It takes them a few seconds, but eventually they get the joke.

It is interesting, though, how careful observation relates to people's perceptions of what they think is a psychic phenomenon.
 
Apologies in advance for a long story, but one example I can think of is when I was at an evening social gathering at a professional conference.  After observing something that happened between two people in front of me, I leaned over to my friend and asked her "Those two hooked up, didn't they?".  Being a close friend to the woman involved, she was stunned that I "knew", because it had just happened two nights ago. [1]  Did the guy brag to me or something?  No, and I told her the reasoning for my guess.  The male was walking through a crowd, doing that turning sideways thing that we all do, and gave a slight look in the direction of the person he was passing, as if he wanted to politely convey to them that he was aware of his invading their personal space.  However, to one of the women, he made no such gesture.  He sidled by her body without any acknowledgment or issue.  It was subtle, but still barely noticable.  I concluded that he didn't do this because he didn't feel self-aware.  Why didn't he feel self-aware?  Because he wasn't uncomfortable being close to a body that he had already been very close to in the past.

[1]  Dirty little secret for you non-scientists out there. "Academic" conferences are basically wild fuck-fests paid for by university funds.

[Treading Water]

[1]  Dirty little secret for you non-scientists out there. "Academic" conferences are basically wild fuck-fests paid for by university funds.

Glad to know my son's tuition isn't being spent on something silly...

Bwahahahahahahahahaha!   

[stevesh]

[1]  Dirty little secret for you non-scientists out there. "Academic" conferences are basically wild fuck-fests paid for by university funds.

That's it. I'm going back for my PHD. Do you suppose the same is true for paranormal and UFO conferences ?

[Flaxen Hegemony]

That's it. I'm going back for my PHD. Do you suppose the same is true for paranormal and UFO conferences ?

Possibly!  I don't want to derail Avi's interesting thread idea any further, so will start a "conference sex" post in open lines.

Segueing back on topic.  One of the more interesting chapters in the Mackay book that I mention above is the adventures of the charlatan Cagliostro.  He "played" financial patrons as much as he did women, but according to some, had a heart of gold and actually did some good.

There are more modern treatments of debunking historical charlatans, but Mackay's book was originally published in the mid 1800's, giving a little different twist to the discussion.  He's much more direct, and less cynical than I think we would be today.
 

[Frys Girl]

That's it. I'm going back for my PHD. Do you suppose the same is true for paranormal and UFO conferences ?

I think for UFO conferences, it's more true. With academic conferences, half of the nerds don't realize it is happening. With paranormal, more of them are there to get it in. That's my guess.

[onan]

If you need to travel to find a fuck fest you are doing something wrong.

[stevesh]

If you need to travel to find a fuck fest you are doing something wrong.

Or you don't want your wife/husband to find out ...

[Flaxen Hegemony]

If you need to travel to find a fuck fest you are doing something wrong.

"Need" would be too strong a word, but it goes back to optimum mate selection strategy: let the environment select for the rarer trait, and choose the other yourself.  It is much easier to find the most attractive woman at an academic conference than it is to select the smartest woman at a modeling agency.

[Treading Water]

It is much easier to find the most attractive woman at an academic conference than it is to select the smartest woman at a modeling agency.

Well, shit.  I guess I'll have to wait until I'm done laughing and gasping before I get offended.     

[Flaxen Hegemony]

Well, shit.  I guess I'll have to wait until I'm done laughing and gasping before I get offended.     

Oh, you know what I meant.   We can instantly assess who is good looking in a room with a split second visual scan.  Determining smarts involves actually talking to everyone, and who wants to do that?

[Avi]

Sheesh! I go away, like to work and stuff, and look what you've done with the place.

Academia itself is a tiresome fuck fest. I spend much of my valuable teaching time trying to discourage the love-lorn. Surprise visits to my office, little gifts I can't accept, swooning looks while I'm lecturing, repertoire chosen so they can sing just to me. I have to stash a barf bag behind the lectern. This ain't Glee, and I ain't interested. Not again, please, I beg uselessly. Why would I settle for chopped liver when I have a goddess at home? I make frequent references to my wife, the brilliant, the love of my life, to no avail.

Academic conferences? You've got to be kidding. People with baggage looking to unload. Of course, as an academic, you never know when that baggage fest is going to bite you in the ass. You know, you get that superb offer from University X, and guess who is on your interview/tenure committee? You better hope you left her/him (as your tastes go) with a good impression, because your baggage fest will outweigh anything academic you have ever or will ever achieve, in her mind. And I'm sure she can persuade a few colleagues, after all. Of course, everyone already knows about your baggage fest - only you think it was a private matter - and everyone on that committee already thinks you are an incontinent, impotent drooler. Sometimes, the fun starts even before the conference ends, when one party just can't believe the baggage fling is over. Academic stalkers are the worst. Naturally, I can only report on these occurrences because I always take my wife, the person with whom I would most like to spend time, anyway. There's no way I wouldn't manage to go to her conferences, either. Women engineers, in fracture mechanics, are rare, rare birds. We'd have to hire a C-130 for all the baggage that gets thrown her way. I like to be there just for the way my goddess laughs at the incontinent droolers.

This is the debunking thread, right? Just thought I'd debunk academic conferences as fuck fests. Most attendees are there to grab as much swag (coffee cups, pens, t-shirts, mouse pads, etc.) as they can and to attend the few conferences that interest them (usually, just the one that they're in). Conferences provide an opportunity to sleep late, watch tv and laze around. Whoot!

[Treading Water]

Damn, I picked the wrong career.  You guys slay me.   

No!  I'm not offering you my baggage!!!!

[Avi]

No!  I'm not offering you my baggage!!!!

That's ok; I have achieved nirvana with my soul mate, but you'd better look out for that Flaxen guy. He'll try to woo you with words that just go together - you know, words with an x. He'll spend an airplane ride listening to you while making goo-goo eyes. He'll ask you about your concrete operations. BOLO! BOLO!

[Avi]

Stan Deyo - No, Stan, I don't see the occurrence of weather as proof of the End Times. Mount St Helen's didn't blow because the Illuminati were in cahoots with the Devil. Here's the copy he uses to sell his book, The Cosmic Conspiracy:

I will not make another edition - appended or otherwise - of this, my first, book as the time is so close for the dictator of the 'latter days' to begin his grab for world domination. It is my fervent hope that many more, new souls will be saved by reading this final edition. I suspect this edition will rapidly become an underground treasure as the tribulation of these days tramples the people of Earth. I reveal for the first time my shocking new, re-translation of eight verses from the Book of Daniel regarding the Alien UFO Deception.

Stan would like us to believe that he can translate Biblical Hebrew and Aramaic. Too bad DanDan has disappeared (only in it for the money, I guess). He could call in with a sample to fuckety-fuck translate. Is there any proof that the Deyo menage are actually living the lifestyle they promote (or La Vida Loca, depending on your take)? They've holed up somewhere with a supply of e-foods and clean water, and have an organic garden the size of Vermont? For realz? Anyway, here is a response Stan supposedly sent to a question regarding his anti-gravity technology:

Hi, Ken,


We do not feel it wise to release anti-gravity into the current global terrorism environment. Having said that, I will give you clues to pursue yourself... carefully....


1) Gravity is a function of spin at an atomic level. Without spin in a fluid (like dark energy or dark matter or 'aether space') gravity does not exist (as far as we know).


2) One of the five EM vectors we tested on the surface of the Earth in both hemispheres showed that one component of 'gravity' varies significantly between the hemispheres.


3) Using coils of wire, soft iron or mu metal cores is an essential part of the device.


4) Using pulsed direct current is another part.


5) Separating pulse trains by phases is another.


6) Using a toroidal shape as I showed in both examples at the Roswell lecture is an integral part of the device.


7) The use of modern electronic components is not necessary. The standard electronic components available to the public in the 1950's will suffice.


Patience is needed when testing whatever you build. It takes a minimum amount of time to stack the spinning energy in a gravitic field so you need to give it a few minutes to see weight changes (depending on how the field is oriented).


9) You may need to have a non-conductive, manual circuit breaker between your circuit and the coils in the event you screw up and cause a field discharge. It can produce high voltages of the kind that are fatal.


Enjoy!


As I am the CEO of an emerging aerospace company, managing partner of our publishing company and IT person for several corporations whom we host on our servers at Iron Mountain, I just cannot devote any time to forums at present. We are working 95-100 hours a week as it is and what little time we steal from work is for sleep or zoning out..... Hope you guys understand that. You WILL appreciate what we are prototyping.

Stan

Wow! Stan understands gravity through and through! How could this break-through not be known to the likes of Stephen Hawking? Oh, that's right, Hawking is an Illuminist, no doubt. He has a sweat-shop full of cosmologists, whom he whips with mechanical whipping devices, controlled by the movement of a finger. His eerie, mechanically generated voice intones, "Get those pulse trains separated by phases, damnit! Everyone jump upon the pulse train!"

[Flaxen Hegemony]

That's ok; I have achieved nirvana with my soul mate, but you'd better look out for that Flaxen guy. He'll try to woo you with words that just go together - you know, words with an x. He'll spend an airplane ride listening to you while making goo-goo eyes. He'll ask you about your concrete operations. BOLO! BOLO!

It is hard to read your tone here, and I don't know whether your intent is humor or mockery.  I may have had different experiences than you at academic conferences, and these obviously inform our opinions.  I respect that your happily married status and love for your wife have a strong effect on your views.  Please also respect that my single status and desire to see women enjoy themselves (three times over, no less) influences my views as well.

Cheers. 

[Agent : Orange]

Oh man... Deyo is just asking to be slapped down.

[Avi]

It is hard to read your tone here, and I don't know whether your intent is humor or mockery.  I may have had different experiences than you at academic conferences, and these obviously inform our opinions.  I respect that your happily married status and love for your wife have a strong effect on your views.  Please also respect that my single status and desire to see women enjoy themselves (three times over, no less) influences my views as well.

Cheers. 

It's humor, dude. You must hear everything I write in an Irish accent, and it will be clear. No body counts necessary. In any case, it's the women who mock us, and they can, because they're so much smarter than we'll ever be. That they only mock us is a mercy...begorrah.

[Eddie Coyle]

You must hear everything I write in an Irish accent, and it will be clear.

    Hiberno or Ulster?

   Not that it matters  ...we're not clannish or sectarian in the slightest.

[Avi]

    Hiberno or Ulster?

   Not that it matters  ...we're not clannish or sectarian in the slightest.

Ha! Donegal, so Ulster.

[Eddie Coyle]

Ha! Donegal, so Ulster.

     I'm Hiberno-inclined, so this means war,boyo! 

   

[Avi]

     I'm Hiberno-inclined, so this means war,boyo! 

   

Don't be giving out to me or I'll have to take off my jacket! Hiberno? Does that mean you're an Englishman from Cork?

[Eddie Coyle]

Don't be giving out to me or I'll have to take off my jacket! Hiberno? Does that mean you're an Englishman from Cork?

    Ya fookin' with me-them's fightin' words, callin' me a Limey!  Go outside and practice falling down,I'll be out in a minute.

   

[Avi]

Ah, so you are one of those incomprehensible people from Cork who've lately become thankful for the written word. Sure, it won't be long before we're all back to "third-world country with a fax machine" status.

Since this is the debunking thread, I must debunk myself as an Irishman. My mother was rescued as a wee lass during WWII by a Catholic relief agency, after her parents had been murdered in the streets of Judea. Hitler was a big hit there at the time, oddly enough. A clan from Letterkenny acted as foster-parents until a relative of my mum's could be located, so the English dialect she learned, and then passed on to me, was strangely acquired. I don't have a drop of Irish blood. I just enjoy the gobsmacked look on the faces of Irish people when I, a walnut brown Semite, level them with my Donegal brogue, especially when they come to my country (also starts with an 'I') to protest. Arragh! You ought to see them when I speak to them in Irish or in Letterkenny Scots, even better. Gobsmacked, I tell you, gobsmacked (by a gobshite, they're likely thinking).

[Eddie Coyle]

 

     As someone who looks every bit a son of Eire...I do have a talent for mimicry and can sound like Jackie Mason or Zero Mostel when needed.

[Avi]

Tonight we have Paul von Ward. From his website, we learn that he began his working life as a Protestant minister, after earning degrees in psychology. He then went on to join the Foreign Service, but in 1995, decided to become "an interdisciplinary cosmologist." His main concerns are these:

With over six billions of us on Earth, you'd think we should know. But, the fact is that we don't know where we came from, what we're doing here, or how we fit into the "big picture." Read the musing of a poet about the need for a new concept of humankind.

Some think humans are accidents in a chance-driven universe. Others think this universe is a natural result of activities in another universe or cosmos, but have no idea of how that one got started. Others believe we and our universe are the results of causative force, but attributions of "purposefulness" to this "causative force" reflect an almost infinite diversity of worldviews.

    Scientists avoid dealing with anomalous aspects of human experience and nature.
    Believers fear to examine the origins of their doctrines.
    Educators indoctrinate instead of helping students to become self-learners.
    Institutions defend beliefs with arrogance and force.

Paul challenges us to question orthodoxy (wherever it is found) and to test its assumptions against the evidence that seems to deny them.
DO ANY OF THESE QUESTIONS INTEREST YOU?

    What do I really know about the birth of life and the origin of my species?
    Does my life experience to-date suggest that human life serves a larger purpose?
    What do I assume about reality beyond my physical senses?
    What evidence suggests the possible existence of nonhuman life-forms?
    How do other species relate to my own?
    If the universe has multiple dimensions, how do they affect my life?
    What role do humans have in our apparently self-evolving universe?

Read more....

Paul believes any credible attempt to develop a viable worldview for the 21st century must fully integrate any epistemology available  to humans to enhance their knowledge of the universe. Consequently, he works systematically with quantum theory, subtle energies, biological evolution, string theory, genetics, creationism, religion, spirituality, history, archaeology and anthropology, consciousness studies, mind-body interactions, UFO/ET studies, frontier and esoteric science, and other areas of research to synthesize a continually evolving human story.

I don't know. If it were so easy to synthesize knowledge across all of these disparate disciplines, would we need to have separate areas of study at all? What befuddles me are those people who claim that quantum effects are perceptible, with our own senses, on the macro level. Then, they always go on to say silly things like "we create our own reality." You got cancer? Well, deep down, you must have wanted it or needed it, for, like, karmic reasons. Oh, there was toxic waste dumped in the water where you lived? Well, deep down, your higher self must have known just how to direct you to that toxic water, so you could get the cancer you so badly needed. Your family lived there for generations? Well, your soul knew that, before it incarnated in you, so you could get that longed-for cancer. Anything can be justified post hoc. How quantum!

[Agent : Orange]

... in 1995, decided to become "an interdisciplinary cosmologist."

*shudder*

people who claim that quantum effects are perceptible, with our own senses, on the macro level

*double shudder and gag*

[fysisist]

Tonight we have Paul von Ward. From his website, we learn that he began his working life as a Protestant minister, after earning degrees in psychology. He then went on to join the Foreign Service, but in 1995, decided to become "an interdisciplinary cosmologist." His main concerns are these:
I don't know. If it were so easy to synthesize knowledge across all of these disparate disciplines, would we need to have separate areas of study at all? What befuddles me are those people who claim that quantum effects are perceptible, with our own senses, on the macro level. Then, they always go on to say silly things like "we create our own reality." You got cancer? Well, deep down, you must have wanted it or needed it, for, like, karmic reasons. Oh, there was toxic waste dumped in the water where you lived? Well, deep down, your higher self must have known just how to direct you to that toxic water, so you could get the cancer you so badly needed. Your family lived there for generations? Well, your soul knew that, before it incarnated in you, so you could get that longed-for cancer. Anything can be justified post hoc. How quantum!

Problem here is that reading "The Dancing Wu Li Masters" doesn't give one a Ph.D. in Physics.  Quantum physics is the new buzzword for the current breed of hoaxsters and charlatans.  It gives me a real headache to listen to these jackasses when they start going into an explanation of quantum mechanics.  Hey, I studied physics at the Ph.D. level and had to bail out because I couldn't master the math and methodology but some wannabe like David Sereda or this guy Paul Von Word can give lessons to CERN and Nobel prize winners.  Oy vey...

[Avi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2tFcZKM-3o

It's the Ed-meister, looking like a surfer boy. Just how much acid do you think he dropped?

[Eddie Coyle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2tFcZKM-3o

It's the Ed-meister, looking like a surfer boy. Just how much acid do you think he dropped?

       It's almost like a Christopher Guest-type of parody. Everything about him is just...creepy.