Topic: Is C2C An NDE?

[Jethro Capone]

There have been close to a bajillion Coasts on NDEs recently. Do you think that this is extremely symbolic of the direction of the show? Look at all of the repeat callers and repeat guests during the past six to twelve months, and look at the further decline of Noory's efforts. Will they soon have to channel Kevorkian's ghost for this dying(?) shell of a once lively, vibrant show?

[noorysmoustache]

I have to say, the frequency of these shows is making me astrally project my own 3 dimensional chunder shower.

There are NO coincidences!

[Camper]

Listen to Noory enough and you will eventually become brain dead so it's kind of like a NDE.

Shows about NDE's used to be among my favorites but Noory couldn't conduct a intelligent interview to save his life.

[Jethro Capone]

I have to say, the frequency of these shows is making me astrally project my own 3 dimensional chunder shower.

There are NO coincidences!

I take it that chunder is vomit. If so, I've filled a few chunder buckets during open lines.

[Jethro Capone]

Listen to Noory enough and you will eventually become brain dead so it's kind of like a NDE.

Shows about NDE's used to be among my favorites but Noory couldn't conduct a intelligent interview to save his life.

Some of us have come to the conclusion that C2C is *not* an NDE. It's a zombie. Let's face it; the show died two or so years ago. We're just listening to a reanimated corpse (excluding non-Noory hosts).

[Eddie Coyle]

   NDE?  More like walking through the woods of Washington state and finding the undiscovered remains of a hooker dumped there by the Green River Killer in 1983. A fetid,decayed corpse that barely resembles anything human.

     C2C is a dead whore in the woods.

     Apologies to whores for the comparison to Noory.

[Jethro Capone]

   NDE?  More like walking through the woods of Washington state and finding the undiscovered remains of a hooker dumped there by the Green River Killer in 1983. A fetid,decayed corpse that barely resembles anything human.

     C2C is a dead whore in the woods.

     Apologies to whores for the comparison to Noory.

Thanks for the beautiful imagery. I'm beginning to think that you're a serial thread-killer. ;-)

[Eddie Coyle]

Thanks for the beautiful imagery. I'm beginning to think that you're a serial thread-killer. ;-)

     It's a gift...I always knew just what to say and how to say it to get me kicked out of classrooms,meetings.

    In the old days it wasn't called "Aspergers" it was just being an "asshole".

[Jethro Capone]

     It's a gift...I always knew just what to say and how to say it to get me kicked out of classrooms,meetings.

    In the old days it wasn't called "Aspergers" it was just being an "asshole".

I'm glad that Ritalin was less popular when I was in grade school. Otherwise, they likely would've hooked me up to an IV drip.

[Gassy Man]

The NDE discussions -- when they actually consult a medical professional -- are among the few subjects worth listening to anymore because at least they have the pretense of rational exploration.  Too often, the guests' reasoning is based on insisting because they believe they are right, it must be so. 

[Eddie Coyle]

I'm glad that Ritalin was less popular when I was in grade school. Otherwise, they likely would've hooked me up to an IV drip.

    I was on it from November,1984 to March, 1985. I went from hyperactive,garrulous 9 year old prone to violent outbursts to a morose stoic prone to violent outbursts.

   

[Jethro Capone]

The NDE discussions -- when they actually consult a medical professional -- are among the few subjects worth listening to anymore because at least they have the pretense of rational exploration.  Too often, the guests' reasoning is based on insisting because they believe they are right, it must be so.

I have no problems with the subject, itself. It's just that too much of a good thing can turn into a bad thing. The number of shows on the topic screams and shouts "booking problems" to me. It's just a hunch.

[Jethro Capone]

    I was on it from November,1984 to March, 1985. I went from hyperactive,garrulous 9 year old prone to violent outbursts to a morose stoic prone to violent outbursts.

 

It's a shame that the "experts" turned normal childhoods into troubling pathologies. What once were typical behaviors are now diagnosed disorders.

[Eddie Coyle]

It's a shame that the "experts" turned normal childhoods into troubling pathologies. What once were typical behaviors are now diagnosed disorders.

    Big pharma has shareholders to please. "Hey, those side effects will hopefully not be made public until our big merger"

[onan]

It's a shame that the "experts" turned normal childhoods into troubling pathologies. What once were typical behaviors are now diagnosed disorders.

I really can't speak to your specific claim. However I am going to speak from the other side of the aisle.


There is a significant difference between asshole and asperger . The primary one is volition. If you blurt out disruptive epithets or display non-empathetic behaviors but have the ability to not do so you are an asshole. If, on the other hand are unable to control those behaviors it is Asperger Syndrome. Which soon will be tucked into a closet and replaced with Autism Spectrum disorder.


To the point of big-pharma being an evil, morally bankrupt monster... well from certain points of view... what else would one think? However, since I am on the inside, I can tell you that many of these so-called ineffective-more-side-effect-producing-poisonous drugs can have miraculous results. I see that side of the equation much more often than any of your (forgive the vitriol) repetitive, overused anecdotes.


Does that invalidate your concerns? Of course not. But lets try to keep some perspective. Lemme see, I see on an average week 30 patients needing crisis intervention due to significant out of control behavior which is harmful to themselves, others, or both. You guys on the other hand may see a handful and likely much less than that a year.


Yes there are problem kids that are very disruptive in class. Yes they are more than likely diagnosed too quickly. But that is not the medical systems fault. Thank your insurance companies that will not provide benefits for a 2 week hospital stay for in depth treatment and observation. Thank parents that are not skilled enough to maintain a stable household let alone raise a child. I get at least 2 different families asking for inpatient treatment for their kids so they don't have to deal with their children s behaviors on a weekly basis.


So please if you wish to vilify inappropriate treatment of people needing psychiatric intervention, at least take a moment to realize the big picture is more complicated than one CEO of GlaxoSmithKline.

[Eddie Coyle]

To the point of big-pharma being an evil, morally bankrupt monster... well from certain points of view... what else would one think? However, since I am on the inside, I can tell you that many of these so-called ineffective-more-side-effect-producing-poisonous drugs can have miraculous results. I see that side of the equation much more often than any of your (forgive the vitriol) repetitive, overused anecdotes.


Does that invalidate your concerns? Of course not. But lets try to keep some perspective. Lemme see, I see on an average week 30 patients needing crisis intervention due to significant out of control behavior which is harmful to themselves, others, or both. You guys on the other hand may see a handful and likely much less than that a year.


Yes there are problem kids that are very disruptive in class. Yes they are more than likely diagnosed too quickly. But that is not the medical systems fault. Thank your insurance companies that will not provide benefits for a 2 week hospital stay for in depth treatment and observation. Thank parents that are not skilled enough to maintain a stable household let alone raise a child. I get at least 2 different families asking for inpatient treatment for their kids so they don't have to deal with their children s behaviors on a weekly basis.


So please if you wish to vilify inappropriate treatment of people needing psychiatric intervention, at least take a moment to realize the big picture is more complicated than one CEO of GlaxoSmithKline.

    From the age of 9-13, I was essentially a human chemistry set. Six variants of psychotropics were applied to me and two were effective(to a degree) The rather cavalier manner of the doctors and disregard for my complaints with a chorus of "give it a few more months"...well,it wasn't until I used the magic term "suicidal ideation" that they really seemed to grasp what I was expressing.

       I wish it was limited to my childhood, but in adulthood I was prescribed a "mood altering" drug,which put me into an extreme anhedonic state and anomie set in. They took me off the drug in August and it wasn't until December that I was feeling "well" enough to even see people.

        I'm sure there are many success stories, but my personal experience isn't one. I have relatives/co-workers where that treatment was effective...I do recall being more than a little amused by my "script" being written on stationary with "Pfizer" etched in the upper right hand corner. Undoubtedly written with a Pfizer pen no less.

       I don't limit my criticisms to the health care system. Humanity in itself is actually my number one annoyance in this issue...there are way too many selfish people out there who should never even consider having kids-but they do(my family is full of them) and then seem generally surprised when the stresses of marriage/parenting catch up to them. I'm not trying to be Herbert Spencer here,but My God, are there way too many "borderline" personalities who feel a need to procreate time and time again until they get it right.

[onan]

    From the age of 9-13, I was essentially a human chemistry set. Six variants of psychotropics were applied to me and two were effective(to a degree) The rather cavalier manner of the doctors and disregard for my complaints with a chorus of "give it a few more months"...well,it wasn't until I used the magic term "suicidal ideation" that they really seemed to grasp what I was expressing.

       I wish it was limited to my childhood, but in adulthood I was prescribed a "mood altering" drug,which put me into an extreme anhedonic state and anomie set in. They took me off the drug in August and it wasn't until December that I was feeling "well" enough to even see people.

        I'm sure there are many success stories, but my personal experience isn't one. I have relatives/co-workers where that treatment was effective...

       I don't limit my criticisms to the health care system. Humanity in itself is actually my number one annoyance in this issue...there are way too many selfish people out there who should never even consider having kids-but they do(my family is full of them) and then seem generally surprised when the stresses of marriage/parenting catch up to them. I'm not trying to be Herbert Spencer here,but My God, are there way too many "borderline" personalities who feel a need to procreate time and time again until they get it right.

Yeah, I get it Eddie. I really do. And I also know that there a large number of practitioners that are not doing anyone any good.


Your assessment is dead on. We spring up more borderlines than there are sticks to shake at them. And we have no social accountability. From puberty till menopause it is considered a godsend to pop out babies with no consideration to their future and the consequences to society at large.


We make people accountable for having pets but want to be a parent... we don't give a shit. I am always amazed at the sanctimony of how special babies are... unless we have to spend a dime of "public" monies. And god forbid we would ever suggest some uterus with a name should not be allowed to have children.


Forgive my bluntness and possible insensitivity. I have to work with many of these children. I no longer have a heart for treating them. As much as people want to deny the fact, many children have been so mistreated they will never be appropriate for living in society.


Not to get to specific but some time ago I had to assess a 10 year old that had killed a very young sibling. This was a functioning mentally capable child with insight and judgement. Understood the concept of right and wrong but had no connection to other people. That 10 year old will never get better, never be "human" and will always be a sociopath.


Those are not the "normal" type patients. And even though it is popular to suggest mental health therapy is at times ineffective, statistics show otherwise.


I know I am going "onanon", But one problem we have in this country is a blind allegiance to the myth of rugged individualism and pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps. That mentality is counterproductive to healthcare in general and in mental healthcare it is toxic. Until we divorce ourselves from the stigma of mental illness and realize we are a village we will continue to suffer these consequences.


I do not mean to sound pollyannish I understand many are concerned that if we provide too much help we may actually enable malingering. I do not have answers to everything. I do know that how it is now is bad and getting worse.


And by the way I am not sure c2c is a nde, I do know that more often than not it is a near shit experience.

[Eddie Coyle]

Yeah, I get it Eddie. I really do. And I also know that there a large number of practitioners that are not doing anyone any good.


Your assessment is dead on. We spring up more borderlines than there are sticks to shake at them. And we have no social accountability. From puberty till menopause it is considered a godsend to pop out babies with no consideration to their future and the consequences to society at large.


We make people accountable for having pets but want to be a parent... we don't give a shit. I am always amazed at the sanctimony of how special babies are... unless we have to spend a dime of "public" monies. And god forbid we would ever suggest some uterus with a name should not be allowed to have children.


Forgive my bluntness and possible insensitivity. I have to work with many of these children. I no longer have a heart for treating them. As much as people want to deny the fact, many children have been so mistreated they will never be appropriate for living in society.


Not to get to specific but some time ago I had to assess a 10 year old that had killed a very young sibling. This was a functioning mentally capable child with insight and judgement. Understood the concept of right and wrong but had no connection to other people. That 10 year old will never get better, never be "human" and will always be a sociopath.


Those are not the "normal" type patients. And even though it is popular to suggest mental health therapy is at times ineffective, statistics show otherwise.


I know I am going "onanon", But one problem we have in this country is a blind allegiance to the myth of rugged individualism and pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps. That mentality is counterproductive to healthcare in general and in mental healthcare it is toxic. Until we divorce ourselves from the stigma of mental illness and realize we are a village we will continue to suffer these consequences.

     Onan, we're on the same wavelength here. "myth of rugged individualism" being a key phrase. The people we speak of are not individuals in the slightest, they are easily lead,manipulated and controlled.They are often slaves to the basest of instincts, and fill our homeless shelters,prisons etc.

    You need a goddamn license to drive a car, but not the MOST IMPORTANT endeavor an adult will undertake=being a parent. Nope, any two morons with properly functioning reproductive organs can start shitting out kids at about 12. And indeed they do. Occasionally the state will step in, but it's often too late. These kids are doomed at birth. I know it sounds horribly misanthropic, but when a 16 year old with an IQ of 72 mates with a 15 year old with a 77 IQ...well,we're not getting tomorrow's best and brightest.

     As you know..it's a radioactive subject. Any suggestion of accountability and next thing you know you're being accused of carrying a Norplant gun and leading "Eugenics Now" movement. Nobody wants to be "ZPG" spokesman of the USA. The left will accuse you of racism/elitism and declaring war on the weak and the right pulls the "life is precious" card.

    Like most things in life...You Can't Win.

[Jethro Capone]

I stand by what I said, Onan. I don't know how the hell you got all of that out of what I said! Maybe you just wanted to make a speech? BTW, I agree with what Eddie said about Big Pharma and greed.

[onan]

I stand by what I said, Onan. I don't know how the hell you got all of that out of what I said! Maybe you just wanted to make a speech? BTW, I agree with what Eddie said about Big Pharma and greed.

My speechification came from your myopic opinion. But by all means blame big pharma for mental illness. Cause god knows it couldn't have been your out of control behavior that brought about your experience. Or better yet disavow mental illness because we all know it is just doctors making up silly illnesses to live in bigger houses. Or more to the point perhaps your childhood wasn't as normal as you believe it was.


Stand by whatever you want to stand by. Just know that defiantly standing by an opinion is nothing more than raising your voice. you haven't furthered the discussion. You have just stamped your feet and cried you are right.

[aldousburbank]

But by all means blame big pharma for mental illness.

I blame Big Pharma for George Noory.  Clearly birth control pills were not developed or distributed early or widely enough.

[onan]

I blame Big Pharma for George Noory.  Clearly birth control pills were not developed or distributed early or widely enough.

You operate from the premise he was born from mammals.

[Eddie Coyle]

I blame Big Pharma for George Noory.  Clearly birth control pills were not developed or distributed early or widely enough.

   I blame the Right wing, had abortion been legal in 1949....

[Jethro Capone]

It's a shame that the "experts" turned normal childhoods into troubling pathologies. What once were typical behaviors are now diagnosed disorders.

Okay, Onan, in hindsight, I should have said, "*some* "experts"" instead of "*the* "experts"". If this obviously true statement evokes a third hysterical response from you, I suggest that you visit your local shrink and ask for the latest chill pills from Big Pharma. BTW, contrary to your assumption (or projection), I had a happy, healthy, active, normal childhood without the benefit of any products from the pharmaceutical industry. Go figure.

[onan]

Okay, Onan, in hindsight, I should have said, "*some* "experts"" instead of "*the* "experts"". If this obviously true statement evokes a third hysterical response from you, I suggest that you visit your local shrink and ask for the latest chill pills from Big Pharma. BTW, contrary to your assumption (or projection), I had a happy, healthy, active, normal childhood without the benefit of any products from the pharmaceutical industry. Go figure.

Do you even know what hysterical means? What did I say that was hysterical, ffs even angry.


You and Eddie started down this road with the supposition that typical kids were being diagnosed with made up diagnoses. All for the benefit of pharmaceutical companies and doctors that know less than parents, who by the way most likely have no training.


Yet when I suggest that is not the case. And doing so with some conciliation in my post as evidenced by:

well from certain points of view... what else would one think?

and

Does that invalidate your concerns? Of course not.

I continue to explain that my experience is different than yours and much more extensive.

To be completely honest I have no idea whether you were seen, diagnosed, and treated by a psychiatrist. 

I do know this. When a suggestion is made by school professionals to parents to have some psychological intervention it isn't about normal childhood behaviors... End of report.

It is comfortable to look back and say "nah it really didn't happen that way." Even if it is true, pharmaceutical companies were not waiting in the wings to glom their profits. Nor were doctors speculating on their next upgrade to their new home in the Hampton's.

I am glad you had a happy healthy childhood. What changed?


You still get to keep your opinion. As I do mine. When you or anyone says something I think comes more from out the ass than the brain I will continue to jump in.


This particular subject comes more from your ass than your brain but as you said "go figure"

[Gassy Man]

I have no problems with the subject, itself. It's just that too much of a good thing can turn into a bad thing. The number of shows on the topic screams and shouts "booking problems" to me. It's just a hunch.

Yeah, I see your point, but, man, I want to bang my head against the wall when he puts on the bullshit artists . . . like last night, Noory had a hour with a guy speculating on world-wide financial collapse because of the dollars flooding the market (yeah, I know this has been done to death, too, but I think this guy actually had some rationale behind about why beyond "the global conspiracy"), and then THREE HOURS with some hippy-dippy Australian talking about all his screwball flights of fancy, interpretations and psychic defenses.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not begrudging people who have legitimate psychic ability, but some of this guy's concepts were if you have a sharp pain in your side the obvious explanation is IT'S AN ENTITY ATTACKING YOU.  Yeah, no chance on a pulled muscle or an injured nerve.  And he yammered for THREE HOURS about things like this.  What really got me pissed was when he cited some guy who basically said he could cure schizophrenia with incence or something . ..  just irresponsible  These are the kinds of guests that just fill up the space between commercials.

[Jethro Capone]

Yeah, I see your point, but, man, I want to bang my head against the wall when he puts on the bullshit artists . . . like last night, Noory had a hour with a guy speculating on world-wide financial collapse because of the dollars flooding the market (yeah, I know this has been done to death, too, but I think this guy actually had some rationale behind about why beyond "the global conspiracy"), and then THREE HOURS with some hippy-dippy Australian talking about all his screwball flights of fancy, interpretations and psychic defenses.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not begrudging people who have legitimate psychic ability, but some of this guy's concepts were if you have a sharp pain in your side the obvious explanation is IT'S AN ENTITY ATTACKING YOU.  Yeah, no chance on a pulled muscle or an injured nerve.  And he yammered for THREE HOURS about things like this.  What really got me pissed was when he cited some guy who basically said he could cure schizophrenia with incence or something . ..  just irresponsible  These are the kinds of guests that just fill up the space between commercials.

Your point is well taken. I believe in some aspects of the paranormal, but some of the guests don't put the best face on the subject. I miss guests like Coleman and Friedman. They bring credibility to their respective fields IMO. Charles Tart is a great guest when the subject is psychic phenomena. He has a credible and rational take on ESP. He's a believer in things like NDEs and OBEs, but he does *not* make fantastic claims that can't be backed by serious scholarship. I think that Coast takes whoever they can get these days, regardless of how outrageous they sound.