Author Topic: Bob Lazar  (Read 3907 times)

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Silent

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Bob Lazar
« on: April 11, 2011, 06:24:17 PM »
I've heard a few of the old Lazar interviews and they were pretty good.  I get the impression from a few other posts here that Lazar was outed as a fake?  What's the story as far as his authenticity.


guildnavigator

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2011, 06:32:52 PM »
there have been many attempts to expose him as a hoaxer, but each piece of evicence against him, or lack of documentation supporting his story can also be explained by his story!


He does run a scientific equipment supply company, he sells uranium, and i've seen videos of his corvette that he converted to run on hydrogen.


I guess it comes down to wether or not you believe that the government (or whoever else) really could and would discredit and cover up as much as they'd have to for his story to be true.


As far as I know there hasn't been a definitive answer to this, and I don't think that there can be unless the story changes.

cwarner

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2011, 12:58:47 PM »
The main thing against him that Friedman always brings up is his education credentials can't be verified. There's no record of him having gone to Caltech or MIT, and apparently the Professors he claimed to have worked with have no idea who he is.

I find it odd though, since he's clearly a smart guy, and lying about having gone to these schools seems like such an obvious flaw in an attempted hoax. Why not just claim to be self-educated?

Not to mention he doesn't really seem like the type to enjoy a lot of attention.. oh well, oddballs do odd things, I guess.

onan

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2011, 03:01:16 PM »
The main thing against him that Friedman always brings up is his education credentials can't be verified. There's no record of him having gone to Caltech or MIT, and apparently the Professors he claimed to have worked with have no idea who he is.

I find it odd though, since he's clearly a smart guy, and lying about having gone to these schools seems like such an obvious flaw in an attempted hoax. Why not just claim to be self-educated?

Not to mention he doesn't really seem like the type to enjoy a lot of attention.. oh well, oddballs do odd things, I guess.

When Lazar first started his story (if I have it right) the internet was still in its infancy and personal computers were a thing of fiction.

guildnavigator

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2011, 03:05:48 PM »
The main thing against him that Friedman always brings up is his education credentials can't be verified. There's no record of him having gone to Caltech or MIT, and apparently the Professors he claimed to have worked with have no idea who he is.

I find it odd though, since he's clearly a smart guy, and lying about having gone to these schools seems like such an obvious flaw in an attempted hoax. Why not just claim to be self-educated?

Not to mention he doesn't really seem like the type to enjoy a lot of attention.. oh well, oddballs do odd things, I guess.




i'm pretty sure that bob's story addresses this lack of documentation at some point.

Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2011, 04:45:26 PM »
i'm pretty sure that bob's story addresses this lack of documentation at some point.

He claims that his past was scrubbed because of the nature of his black scientific work.  This is ridiculous. Nobody can find a single professor or classmate of his.  Did they scrub the memories of several hundred people!? He is a liar and a fraud.  But if you want interesting scientific gizmos mail-order, he's the best there is.

cwarner

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2011, 05:39:18 PM »

When Lazar first started his story (if I have it right) the internet was still in its infancy and personal computers were a thing of fiction.

This is true, but you don't need the internet to call a couple schools and their faculty to verify that someone attended. He was telling his story to George Knapp initially, an investigative reporter. Actually, you gotta wonder why Knapp didn't do a more thorough background check and verify that the attended those schools..

Such a silly flaw to such a great story :S

guildnavigator

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Bob Lazar
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2011, 12:44:17 AM »
Out of the entire story, the idea that the secret government organization who has scrubbed the trail of evidence left by all of the aliens and their vehicles that they've been hiding in area 51 could wipe out a transcript and silence a group of people isn't the idea that bothers me.

Didn't he also have part of his memory wiped out with some drug?


Sent from my iPhone

mprice1984

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2011, 09:03:34 AM »
i personally think lazar is a phony.
 
he's very smart, but the information he shares is not that revealing or frankly, interesting.

Roger

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2011, 06:48:24 AM »
The Bob Lazar story is bound to live for a long time because it involves
matters deemed issues of National Security.

Nobody else working there has a public profile of publically accessible
CV, either.  As would be logical.

Somebody who worked there, got fired due to improprieties or breaking the
rules, even if he turned out sloppy-joes at the cafeteria, yet was fairly
intelligent otherwise, could confabulate a tenable story to less than
well informed but curious readers (or viewers of his videos).

Friedman's critique based on lack of record of his educational credentials
(Lazar's credentials that is) has some holes.

If everyone who works for an agency or 'top secret' factor of government
gets a kind of 'washing' so that any personell can't be zeroed in on and
kidnapped and poked around for information by enemical foreign interests,
lack of 'provenance' for them ought not be surprising.

What hollows out the Lazar story isn't that, but that Lazar can't seem to
provide a believable description of an eight-hour day inside such a craft.

Someone who ever worked in a shop in high-school can review for anyone
else some kind of intelligent description of the basics the 'shop teacher'
put us through in how to lay out a project, cut a dado, mill a piece of
metal, run a lathe, use calipers; or in a chemistry class, how to measure
out material, etc.

We don't get a single iota of what 'back-engineering' entailed from Bob
Lazar.

We get a highly vague description of being 'shown things' and 'voila!',
he comes out with videos describing the true nature of 'gravity waves'
and how the ships 'pull distant points' towards the ship, and so-on.

So, we get: being shown the ship, phenomena, and enormous conclusions.

No intermediate points that would make what he says probative.

No math, no formulae, no outline of what-all a full day really consisted.

No doubt, in these days of the internet with proprietary search companies
that 'suss out', supposedly, all there is to be known about anyone,
and everyone of Lazar's age-bracket being able to view his image who might
have gone to school with him at any time: the fact he seems untraceable and
no one coming forth saying "I remember that guy in kindergarten"
is highly intriguing.  There's more mystery in that than his
claims and theories at face value.  Still, that mystery is no reason to
swallow his bag of tales whole.

There are probably lots of potentially probative alternative explanations
for every critique of his story. Yet, again, it begins in a highly secretive
level of functions.  Where, they say: once in, never out.  Maybe so, but
so long as his stories don't get him in deeper trouble, or divulge
important issues, I suppose he might be given some latitude to make up
any alternative story he wants. And yet, he doesn't seem to be capitalizing
on that potential very much, either.

I can think of only one reason for this that I can take seriously: he
can't fill in the details I mention.  Which leads me to think he got away
with a slap on the wrist, but not for 'revealing US ownership of 'Saucers',
but for breaking something basic to empolyment at a top-secret installation.
Including not putting national secrets at risck or other
employees there at risk.  Other than that, he was a smart-alecky smart
kid whose worst was popularizing we had some pretty sexy vehicle-research
of our own going on out there.  What else is new? We'll know all about it
in a few years, and I suspect it will not be much beyond what current
physics deems doable.  Probably much of it beyond even a Michio Kaku,
whose clearance might be about as good as Lazar got, then blew.  The
biggest brains long ago stopped being allowed to get famous.  Everyone
knows that. Right?



Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2011, 11:40:46 AM »
I've known several people who worked on black projects.  There was absolutely no scrubbing of prior educational records. Lazar is a fraud.

http://www.dreamlandresort.com/area51/lazar/index.htm

Roger

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2011, 01:27:31 AM »
Are you racist? Whaddya mean 'black' projects? You ever 'worked on the ghetto?'
(The Office). Just kidding.

Makes me think of an episode of NYPD Blue: two guys get in a bloody
fight over what happened to them in 'Nam': neither one had ever been there.

I don't know anything about it save what I've read.  Yet think it highly
unlikely your 'friends' were involved in 'top secret' or any high
security clearance functions and told YOU about it, aware you might
one day be writing on a forum like this about those things.

Maybe your 'friends' were involved in some bloody operations as part of
regular service in Marines, Army, Navy or even Airforce long ago.

In any function as part of any branch of service, there can apparently be operations
that are at one time or another deemed 'black', meaning the functions
are restricted to 'need to know' even within that particular service; and are
not shared with other services not coordinated with that particular
operation.  A month later the 'black' can be removed, and everybody can
know about it, even the press.

That isn't what fits my understanding of what is maintained as 'top secret'
clearances which come along with fealty to the particular service and to
the Nation, and which involve life-long silence even after 'declassification'
has been stamped on any paper-work related to an operation. Freedom to talk
comes only from direct informing or 'dissolves' and which come with paper work
as well or stamped permissions after review of anything written.

Of course, all the services have snafus
as par for the course.  That is when the clumbsy 'information officers'
are called into service.  There, apparently, top-down or top-weighted
information possession proves the faults.  'Trickle-down economics' was
no doubt based on this term from classification terminology.

At least, so I've read about this murky world.

As far as I know, such has happened only rarely, as exemplified by
Professor Richard Feynman before his publications of his experiences in
atomic work.  It was embarrassing to some. Yet he had clearance
from somewhere.  Or was he bucking the system?  He was famous enough to
get away with it.  Anybody else getting away with it without permission:
highly doubt it.

Several books from Brittain about such matters have, now and then,
been published . . . apparently honest.  Who knows from the outside?

Otherwise, there are tons of people who worked with such and whose names
might never be known save as a result of research through 'artifacts'
searched out by 'History Detectives'.  The researchers in that show (PBS)
have run into blank walls more than once looking things up by such
happenstances of items in the attics of descendents.

There are plenty of publically accessible books on the hierarchy of
'secret' agencies and the flow of information and some of their
past vocabularies.  I suspect these vocabularies must have seriously
changed once terms become popular.

'Black' is a variable term.  Top secret and the issues of personal responsibility
to the Nation and any particular service one may be attached to doesn't
seem to involve what is popularly perceived in the term.

Lazar could have received a clearance, and so able to enter a facility
without being at the same time fully informed as to what was going on.

It could have been a psychological study of how certain fairly intelligent
people react to what was going on by brief exposure of ordinary work - - -
deemed by fully informed workers in there.  Due to a leak about ordinary
work. Earth-based work.

Seems rather mean, exclusive, treating someone like a rat in a maze.

Stranger things are known to have been done under the aegis of
such 'secret' agencies.

Imagine what a preemptive strategy might have been formulated if it was
known 'leaks' might have transpired ere then?

Balance of power, public reactions, economics: everything could be affected
by proliferation of 'half-truths'.  So: make the half-truths quarter-truths,
eighth truths, etc. until none of it has any probity at all.  Dilution.

Doesn't mean 'aliens' left crafts; the dastardly methods of 'quelling'
global reaction to 'leaks', neither, can be used by dosey-doe some means
to derive the actual facts.

All of this, merely armchair speculations, some deductions, alternative
reasonings from traces of writings and subtle implications available to
any reader.

Again: I just find Lazar's 'physics' and basic science insofar as
saucers are concerned, the weird things he claimed to have seen
with his own eyes, unconvincing.

Maybe the 'aliens' are influencing my powers of reasoning.

I don't think so.  Or maybe Lazar is the 'information officer', providing
disinformation as a protection of whatever is really going on.

Slight of hand.  The Copperfield or Houdini of misdirection?

Wanna see me pull a rabbit out of my hat!? (Bullwinkle).












onan

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2011, 01:43:24 AM »
I like lazar. I think he is a pathological liar, and a damned good one at that. Like most of the guests on C2C and c2c there isn't a bit of actual proof. But unlike some of the recent offerings including a mental midget of an interviewer, Lazar was fun to listen to. Hell he taught me a thing or two about non-denial denials... more so than All the Presidents men did.
 
Much in the same way as the Liar's Club can be fun so can Lazar.
 
 

Peenman Enterprises

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2011, 03:47:37 AM »
This is true, but you don't need the internet to call a couple schools and their faculty to verify that someone attended. He was telling his story to George Knapp initially, an investigative reporter. Actually, you gotta wonder why Knapp didn't do a more thorough background check and verify that the attended those schools..

Such a silly flaw to such a great story :S

Not only that but what about things like graduation programs, campus directories, paper records etc.? Thousands or probably tens of thousands of pieces of paper would have had to have been located and changed. For instance how many grads would have had copies of the program from their graduation? The government contacted everyone of them, replaced their programs with ones that omitted Lazar's name? And they all went along with this? Or perhaps the government committed thousands of burglaries to obtain these documents?

Also how did he get an MS from MIT and never get his name on a published scientific paper? And the government did not scrub his high school record; how did someone from the bottom third of his class get admitted to MIT in the first place?

I could write several pages about what is wrong with Lazar's story. He is an obvious fraud and there is no even remotely plausible scenario under which he is telling the truth.

All of which is a real shame because I wanted the story to be true and I now when I hear Knapp talk about how you can believe his newer stories because he is "a journalist" I can't help but think how easily he was taken in by Lazar and how to this day he refuses to admit it.

cwarner

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2011, 10:40:51 AM »
Yeah that's also the problem with conspiracy theories in general. The more you prod them the larger and larger the conspiracy has to get (more people & resources). Meanwhile the larger a conspiracy gets, the less likely it is to remain a conspiracy, because there are more people and more opportunities for them to make mistakes.

Roger

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2011, 05:44:53 AM »
Yeah that's also the problem with conspiracy theories in general. The more you prod them the larger and larger the conspiracy has to get (more people & resources). Meanwhile the larger a conspiracy gets, the less likely it is to remain a conspiracy, because there are more people and more opportunities for them to make mistakes.

I find myself inclined to agree. I don't have the confidence
in my reading or first-hand experiences, either one, to
belay a reasonable fear that such might not be possible,
however.

And since ALL intents, and ALL purposes, I presume, are
immeasurable by ANY ONE individual: generalizing about
any group of people, a couple of sisters, brothers,
huntas, cartels or committees or even nations . . .
presumes quite a large scope of personal
knowing to enable such summation.

We say 'world', but that must be a summation of all
the special interests that are going on based mostly on
families, then cultures, then nations and so on.

'Conspiracy' is amongst the most common thing going on
in every day life.  What is rare, it seems to me, is
awareness of such special interests, and finding some
inroad for communication with regard to kindred intents:
that all shall get on, do well, and not suffer.

While fighting and 'eracing' supposed oppositions is deemed
rational, will they not go on doing what is 'rational'?

We need to look anew at strategies and tactics with
kindness as the better part of wisdom. Where a form of
living doesn't infringe, doesn't lease, doesn't lien,
doesn't take but instead presses out only about the
beauty of personal culture where any might receive it.

If none receive it: it will die out by non-purchase,
non-acceptance.

No doubt, in the throes of death, maybe the last gasp of
life of any group will resort to propoganda, influence of
image, thought, prevelance of images preferential to
the otherwise already dead way of life.

Some may buy it, go along with it, give it fresh life.

Maybe like a herd of panicked animals rushing blindly towards
a precipice.

Who decides what a 'precipice' is?

Some see a 'precipice' in any number of things.

They agree in their fears, and so they act together to
'prevent' the 'doom'.

That is a 'conspiracy'.

What's the difference between a cooperation and a
conspiracy?

Who writes the history, who defines the 'good', who defines
the 'bad'?

Generation after generation we see changes of opinion.

Fortunes change for lineages, very few remember distinctly
personal stories of much beyond the second generation
before.

A sense of things, attitudes, I believe, are passed on
way beyond third, fourth and fifth generations.

Which I would call 'conceits' or 'tendancies'.

Some kind, some not so kind.

I prefer to think the 'not so kind' are dying out.

As to the fundemental things, outside all intellectual
forces, they will be the things deep thought shall
shape out better and better.

Not doubt we are not yet there, nor can we ever be 'there'
in any final way, as learning is a continuous thing.

We 'suss' out laws, we perfect means of extraction of
energy from nature so that more can have more and equality
alters perceived need for 'policing' of objection to
extremes of having and not having.

During the interim, either part can have perceived need
to 'conspire'.

Conspiracy is part and parcel of changes of state of
the generality of mankind while catching up to the
generality of knowledge and understanding of things.

Information is king, knowledge is power. As power becomes
more and more general, less and less shall special interests,
it seems to me, be deemed necessary. Mutual harmony. Non
trespass, generally assumed.

Mutual respect, general kindness. Recognition of abundance.
All space tells us this. Nature practically shouts: no
lack. *(no review, no spell check. All errors mine alone).

Chupacabra

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2011, 07:32:08 PM »
I wouldnt belive Bob Lazar anymore then I would belive Mel waters (mels hole and his baby seal story)

the same goes for that guy who could levitate objects in his front room, what was his name?

The General

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2011, 07:44:03 PM »

the same goes for that guy who could levitate objects in his front room, what was his name?

John Hutchison

Chupacabra

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2011, 08:45:55 PM »
ah yes, the  Hutchison effect


Roger

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2011, 01:46:45 AM »
There are almost innumerable mathematical constructs that
 have so-called 'predictive' potentialities.

My sparse reading of the history of science seems to suggest
that a ratio between the numbers of mathematical
'writing' or workings to practical applications turns out
to show, in either case, they rarely are simultaneous.

I read again and again that mathematical pattern lovers
are found by experimentalists to be highly utile. Number
and number theory working into emperical stuff.

There are also almost innumberable emperical experiences
or experiments that have not, as of yet, been aligned with
such 'theoretical grounds'.

I don't see any reason to mock any such emprical matters
that haven't, as of yet, been thoroughly checked out,
or aligned with such 'paper work'.

We might be shooting ourselves in the foot in passing off
reports, however 'exotic' as 'baseless' and 'meaningless'.

I don't know much more than passing awareness of this
'Hutchison' or his 'effect'.

The math wizards seem to presage what will come to be
practical by direct experiment. Or is it that we can
'force-fit' such models to experience? What, then, becomes
of the 'error' of such models? Does it affect our appreciation
of direct experiments? Is this 'prejudice'. Does this affect
funding? Finding?

Another thing is also obvious: many basement/garage or
'kitchen' experimentor has developed some very useful
things that haven't as yet been matched up
with current understanding of mathematical theories
 past or present.

If you want to mock 'Hutchinson' (sp?) effect,
 go ahead. I don't know much
about this. Thanks for pointing it out though.

I only know that so far as the Lazar story goes,
 I'm still waiting to understand how he comes up with a
 theory of gravity as 'waves' by being
a short-term employee at a secret installation.

This 'wave theory' of gravity was extant long ere
Lazar started touting it.

Maybe that was his prejudice. A fantastic story to
'substantiate' it: not thinking it actually helps that
theory.

I respect mockery of fraud. When someone mocks someone or
something and doesn't even know the name of what they mock:
makes me want to look at that topic and find out for myself.

I seriously doubt that was your intent.

I cannot know that for sure by reading what you write.

If your intent was to spur such research: well done.

Your psychology seems to work! Insincere, devious. It would
make me also think: maybe such would be our destruction if
such a devious method promoted it!

I know next to nothing about this, but here are some
links about this 'Hutchison effect' you find so meaningless
(or maybe you want us to destroy ourselves by it!
MWAH ha ha ha!) Right?

Er, wait! Yer not Bob Lazar, are you?

The Hutchison Effect-John Hutchison

hutchison effect

http://www.thehutchisoneffect.com/
http://wn.com/Bill_Beaty
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l%40eskimo.com/msg02594.html

And, apparently countless others on this so-called 'effect'.

We'll see.


the_wanderer

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2011, 02:21:36 AM »
I find myself inclined to agree. I don't have the confidence
in my reading or first-hand experiences, either one, to
belay a reasonable fear that such might not be possible,
however.

And since ALL intents, and ALL purposes, I presume, are
immeasurable by ANY ONE individual: generalizing about
any group of people, a couple of sisters, brothers,
huntas, cartels or committees or even nations . . .
presumes quite a large scope of personal
knowing to enable such summation.

We say 'world', but that must be a summation of all
the special interests that are going on based mostly on
families, then cultures, then nations and so on.

'Conspiracy' is amongst the most common thing going on
in every day life.  What is rare, it seems to me, is
awareness of such special interests, and finding some
inroad for communication with regard to kindred intents:
that all shall get on, do well, and not suffer.

While fighting and 'eracing' supposed oppositions is deemed
rational, will they not go on doing what is 'rational'?

We need to look anew at strategies and tactics with
kindness as the better part of wisdom. Where a form of
living doesn't infringe, doesn't lease, doesn't lien,
doesn't take but instead presses out only about the
beauty of personal culture where any might receive it.

If none receive it: it will die out by non-purchase,
non-acceptance.

No doubt, in the throes of death, maybe the last gasp of
life of any group will resort to propoganda, influence of
image, thought, prevelance of images preferential to
the otherwise already dead way of life.

Some may buy it, go along with it, give it fresh life.

Maybe like a herd of panicked animals rushing blindly towards
a precipice.

Who decides what a 'precipice' is?

Some see a 'precipice' in any number of things.

They agree in their fears, and so they act together to
'prevent' the 'doom'.

That is a 'conspiracy'.

What's the difference between a cooperation and a
conspiracy?

Who writes the history, who defines the 'good', who defines
the 'bad'?

Generation after generation we see changes of opinion.

Fortunes change for lineages, very few remember distinctly
personal stories of much beyond the second generation
before.

A sense of things, attitudes, I believe, are passed on
way beyond third, fourth and fifth generations.

Which I would call 'conceits' or 'tendancies'.

Some kind, some not so kind.

I prefer to think the 'not so kind' are dying out.

As to the fundemental things, outside all intellectual
forces, they will be the things deep thought shall
shape out better and better.

Not doubt we are not yet there, nor can we ever be 'there'
in any final way, as learning is a continuous thing.

We 'suss' out laws, we perfect means of extraction of
energy from nature so that more can have more and equality
alters perceived need for 'policing' of objection to
extremes of having and not having.

During the interim, either part can have perceived need
to 'conspire'.

Conspiracy is part and parcel of changes of state of
the generality of mankind while catching up to the
generality of knowledge and understanding of things.

Information is king, knowledge is power. As power becomes
more and more general, less and less shall special interests,
it seems to me, be deemed necessary. Mutual harmony. Non
trespass, generally assumed.

Mutual respect, general kindness. Recognition of abundance.
All space tells us this. Nature practically shouts: no
lack. *(no review, no spell check. All errors mine alone).

fuck me, i thought i could rant on..  you're the king dude... ha ha


but from the format of your post, you already had this diatribe made up because of the formatting

EvB

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2011, 04:21:27 PM »
fuck me, i thought i could rant on..  you're the king dude... ha ha


but from the format of your post, you already had this diatribe made up because of the formatting

I often write in a text editor, then just paste to post when I have a lot to say.  It's really annoying to lose a long post due to some web glitch!


Roger

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2011, 11:43:15 PM »
No! Yer king!

I does some-a-times use text-editor, then cut and paste. Not in the ones
posted here though.

I wrote in the little 'quick reply' window.

Verbose, no doubt about that.

A silly, 'flow of consciousness after having drunk too much' type of
posting.

Hitting the 'quote' button with me: maybe not a good idea. Then's a good
time to cut and paste! ferget the quote-button. ha ha

More beer, less typing: maybe then my writing will improve!




fysisist

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2011, 12:02:26 PM »
Not to forget that Lazar was being egged on by John Lear and his buddy Gene Huff.  I think there is some kernel of truth in the whole story, but I don't think it is the story that Lazar is telling.  One real problem with it is physics of the anti-gravity drive that Lazar claims; i.e. the gravity a and b waves, element 115, etc.  He is claiming that what conventional physics calls the strong nuclear force is actually another aspect of gravity.  If that were the case, I'm quite sure that particle physics would have been able to verify that by now.  With CERN and FermiLab, the structure of matter is being explored at much smaller scales than the atomic nucleus, which is the scale that Lazar claims that this gravity a wave is manifested.  In fact I can't help but wonder if he dreamed up this theory of gravity and the whole area 51 story came along later as a way to fit the theory to something tangible (so to speak). 

Roger

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2011, 03:17:30 AM »
There have been several people in even the early 20th century or even
late 19th century who contemplated that gravity was a kind of Bernouli
effect writ large.

The same principles that allow a plane to fly or a leaf to float to the
ground might be extended in some practical way to move a body without
wind . . . . unless it was some other form of 'air' or 'fluid' that
might be moved by some means, and that movement differentiated with
regard to a body.

It is, perhaps, a problem for social-managers, when some 'nobody' might
find a means to move about or move things without resorting to typical
brute-force.

The so-called 'subtle' energies inherent in nature, when reduced to
an easily understood principle, like the first-principle tools concept of
'fulcrum' or amplified power through pullies and such, if this should
reduce a commercial concept. . . . that would have been . . . or will be
. . . or was . . . an issue of contention and objection to so-called
holders of 'power'.

The 'model' or 'mathematical orientation' as to what is going on, might be
90 degrees or some other tangent out of sync with reality.

When someone utilizes a different orientation of thought or a different way
of using this most common and thus disregarded power in a device: good luck
getting even a 'maverick' professor of physics to experiment with
such 'varient'.

Just read the old natural philosphers.  Then look at the so-called 'new-age'
physicists.  They all fall upon that 'glory'-ful statement: "It stands
on theoretical grounds alone".

Theory or model most preferred confers upon the experimentor a limted
scope of experiment.  They'll look at what some 'important' person deems
worthy of effort.

Leaves lots of room for basement or garage experimentors to leans lots
even though they know nothing espoused by such 'experts'.

Lot


Roger

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2011, 03:31:23 AM »
the hardest thing for any expert to say or espouse is the first princple of
learning: i don't know.

'I don't know' is stimulus of investigation. Curiosity. Current model
of thought, based on so-called 'science by elimination of fallow
models' is meaningless.  Or what? We have exhausted all possible models?

Model today is based on the very limited fact that funding is limited.
Publishing is limited to what funding limited.

So any ordinary 'joe' or 'jane' might find something out on a weekly
and humble wage, but who dig according to their own interest and being
intrigued by something nature not yet fully looked at.

r.

Roger

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2011, 03:48:10 AM »
OH! And furthermore: if you or anyone you know DID have some creative
idea or some line of thinking and urge to experiment so as to find out
for themselves; and yet were susceptible to propoganda that some 'alien'
had already solved the 'problem' . . . well, maybe they'd be disheartened
and not follow through with their own native curiosity or investigation.

Maybe you thought you invented the best can-opener ever.  Then you opened
the paper and read an advertizement saying: best can opener ever here!
Only 25 cents! (Plus shipping and handling!)  May you saw a picture and
it looked like your idea.  What does a regular person do in the face of
such competition?

Okay, maybe someone had the same idea, same pattern of thought. Maybe even
some 'licence' to produce such.

Everyone has ideas.  Who holds the 'patent' of the concept of 'knife'?

Who makes the best knife?  Who makes the best 'bread-board'?

Millions of people can take a little steel or pieces of wood to make
either in varient fashions.

A fundemental concept of controlled 'explosions' wielded the internal
combustion engine.

Whence comes today the 'car', even though a steam-driven car preceded
the so-called 'gasoline engine' car. The steam-car is returning.

Least force, greatest milage: practical.

Somebody is going to derive motive force from the most universal force:
cosmic rays, neutrinos: some way to funnel this energy unidirectionally.

Seems highly difficult to most of us, but some budding experimentor, some
acnied teenager today or his or her child or grandchild will get it.

And when they do, their heirs will wonder: how did those 'geniuses' ere
then not see that?

Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2011, 08:24:49 AM »
Bob Lazar is full of shit. If anything, he overheard some scuttlebutt while working at Los Alamos about some pretty fantastic tests going on in the high desert nights. Not too improbable.
As far as this S-4 bullshit....how are the employees shuttled to this site? If that same big Greyhound takes them a nicely maintained road should be present via google Earth, or any satellite image of credible authenticity. An old man hiked within sight of S-4 and had no problems whatsoever as far as security and he did most certainly not see any hangers in the hillsides or anything suspicious for that matter. Let alone the total abscence of security devices as are prevalent over around the desert at the more public frequented areas, i.e. groom lake road.
Bob Lazar - UFO Mechanic - convicted panderer - and he just flat out looks like a shady sumbitch.

Roger

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2011, 05:39:14 AM »
Well, some old codger might be able to see some landscape, and some google-mapping photo might be another thing for another
discussion, but nobody who's walked any kind of terrain can claim to have seen it all or have some special talent for
recognizing every nook and crany of nature or detect something intentionally designed to look natural.  Five or ten feet
of elevation on an old dirt road can help anyone see a little further but also drastically change perception of distances and
just turning around make the road just traveled seem utter foreign save for the last 20 yards or less.  Not buying that
summation of yours Jameson.  None of which alters my objections as far as the Lazar story is concerned thus far. There are
unknowns you know?  And if someone intentionally wants to keep something unknown, all bets are off according to some cursory
examination and jumping to a conclusion with, ahem, what I'd call unwarranted acrimony and vigor of vinegar.

GSD

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Re: Bob Lazar
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2011, 05:32:11 PM »
Bob Lazar claims he went public so he wouldn't get whacked by shadow government. This sounds intriguing and mysterious and piques the interest of conspiracy nuts everywhere, it's BS and he knew what he was doing from day 1. The jokes on anyone who takes him TOO seriously. He's VERY intelligent (IQ 165+) and has analyzed his story enough to fill most of his story's holes when questioned. I believe there is some truth to his tales like most stories, but in the end, GREED was his motivation. He took some truths, then added a lot of fiction, then ENGINEERED a story with PLAUSIBLE DENIAL and PLAUSIBILITY and literally CAPITALIZED on it.

I see Lazar as an entertainer and he entertains me, so I don't really care what he says. Nothing he says is science and therefore it cannot be DISPROVED. For some of the elements of his story that can be disproved, no one cares enough to waste the time and resources to disprove what he has to say.

In most people's opinion, Bob has a really bad case of diarrhea of the mouth. To the conspiracy theorist, everything he says is true and you cannot convince them otherwise.

As Jane's Addiction use to say, "Everyone's a little full of shit".