Author Topic: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'  (Read 1351 times)

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when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« on: February 23, 2011, 12:32:05 AM »
it was about 11 years ago.  i was watching an orgy of ufo documentaries on the Discovery Channel.  i was thinking about how each documentary basically re-cooked the same sightings over and over again.  and told each story differently every time.  when ....

dun - dun - dunnnnnnnn

cut to a 'ufo researcher' walking along a grassy field outside a bar where a 'ufo meeting/lecture/symposium/beer garden' was being held.  the guy is talking in even, measured tones.  when i notice ... in the background ... a fellow 'ufo researcher' leaning up against a tree for what had to be one EPIC FUCKING PISS

yeah.  POP went my bubble.  the really glorious thing about having a 'ufo symposium' at a bar ... the beer is a business write off if you've bothered to incorporate

smart.  piss up a rope smart.  but not smart enough to tell the drunk to get out of the fucking shot.  or to edit that content out.  or reshoot it. 

and people wonder why the ufo topic isn't taken seriously

holy hell

i submit to you that C2C has become that staggering drunk.  leaning up against an oak.  oblivious to all the people standing around ... going 'wtf man ... it's 3:10 in the afternoon?!!!!'

if you've had a similar experience, please contribute

beers and cheers,

b

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2011, 02:23:26 PM »
  when i notice ... in the background ... a fellow 'ufo researcher' leaning up against a tree for what had to be one EPIC FUCKING PISS
-snipped-


Sorry. I'll be sure to be more discreet next time.

In all seriousness I agree with your post. If some new intel was presented with fresh outlook on things maybe I wouldn't be so skeptical. And no I don't consider Snoron & his crew of regulars as reliable sources.

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2011, 03:16:46 PM »
All that National Geographic and History channel stuff is made to make the subjects look rediculous. Sadly C2C seems to have gone the same way. In the old days of 90's Art Bell shows it felt like you were getting secret info first hand from good sources (usually  :-*) and Art sounded engaged by the guests and got involved. As mentioned in the 'Art Bell quits' thread, he said the 'Big Wigs' in LA call the shots on the show now. Thats why we get a lot more Bigfoot, obvious UFO stories and Hoagland saying every meteor is a spaceship! ;D
Read William Cooper an d doint listen to the critics. Cooper is the only one of this crew who every got shot by the police for what he was saying, go figure!

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2011, 07:19:41 PM »
The way I look at Art's C2C is much the same way I see movies like the Exorcist, the Matrix, and others... they are fun. Do I believe they are reality? no but fiction has a way of allowing us to see reality with more nuance.

I do not believe in an afterlife I am not saying there isn't one I am saying I do not know. But listenting to the EVP people gives me goose bumps. I think hoagland is a numbskull but I had more fun thinking about the possibility of some advanced life devising a way to communicate with us as fascinating as a hot apple pie and ice cream.

The way I look at noory's c2c is ugly table dancers trying to steal my 2 dollars.

when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2011, 09:07:19 PM »
I have been disillusioned since it became so commonplace and acceptable to be into the paranormal. Like all these shows on the Discovery Channel, etc. I'm tired of the lame-ass factor. Any dweeb can get a nightvision camera and a hodgepodge group of "investigators" and they have a show. There's nothing mysterious about it. 

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2011, 10:22:07 PM »
I have been disillusioned since it became so commonplace and acceptable to be into the paranormal. Like all these shows on the Discovery Channel, etc. I'm tired of the lame-ass factor. Any dweeb can get a nightvision camera and a hodgepodge group of "investigators" and they have a show. There's nothing mysterious about it.


South Park - Paranormal Activity


South Park Ghost Hunters



Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2011, 10:35:38 PM »
dead on parody of Ghost Hunters

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2011, 07:03:39 AM »
Read William Cooper an d doint listen to the critics.

DON'T listen to the critics? Why not?

Cooper is the only one of this crew who every got shot by the police for what he was saying, go figure!

Cooper was also an antisocial conspiracy theorist who kept a shotgun next to his front door, had an arrest warrant issued for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, threatened to resist using deadly force the execution of that warrant on his website, waved handguns around at a freeway, and shot a sheriff's deputy when the law caught up with him.

Wow, THAT guy got shot by police?

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2011, 08:01:37 AM »
I haven't become that disillusioned with the whole thing, I still have an interest.  The problem is that it's really hard to find good information on the subject. Shows like Ghost Hunters really bug me because they take what could be some good creditable evidence, and hype it up with Hollywood BS like sound effects and dramatic music... it' totally distorts the information they are trying to present. Especially their cheesy walkie-talkie voiceovers: "We arrived at the building around 9pm, the property manager hadn't shown up yet and we couldn't find a way in". It really bugs me when people say they are into the paranormal and then consider Ghost Hunters as one of their favourite shows.

That's what I always liked about C2C, they don't hype it up. They just present the evidence for an informed audience.  However, I've noticed in the last few years that really, no new information is coming out... I've heard all the theory's many times. Maybe this explains why C2C is doing allot more shows lately about bio terrorism the oil industry.

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2011, 08:56:08 AM »
DON'T listen to the critics? Why not?

Cooper was also an antisocial conspiracy theorist who kept a shotgun next to his front door, had an arrest warrant issued for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, threatened to resist using deadly force the execution of that warrant on his website, waved handguns around at a freeway, and shot a sheriff's deputy when the law caught up with him.

Wow, THAT guy got shot by police?

yeah Cooper was a total head case.  a friend and i went to his web site years ago and looked around.  omfg was it bad.  the site played insanely patriotic choral music sung by the Marine Corp choir or something.  read up on his situation and at least at a glance it appeared that he probably beat his wife (she left the country to get away from him) and was in the habit of carrying guns at all times. the obvious paranoia made his death seem less like a conspiracy and more like a crazy loon holed up in his house, taking pot shots at law enforcement as his life collapsed around him.  he went out fighting.  for what?  i have no idea.  i doubt he did either


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_William_Cooper

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2011, 09:07:01 AM »
DON'T listen to the critics? Why not?

Cooper was also an antisocial conspiracy theorist who kept a shotgun next to his front door, had an arrest warrant issued for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, threatened to resist using deadly force the execution of that warrant on his website, waved handguns around at a freeway, and shot a sheriff's deputy when the law caught up with him.

Wow, THAT guy got shot by police?
[/b]

Bill Cooper was driven off a cliff by U.S. agents after releasing his first lot of info, he lost his leg in this accident and was threatened countless times. I'd be carrying a shotgun too!!
Thats why I said 'don't listen to the critics' because very few people know Coopers real story as few bother to research it before repeating the official story of his death.



yeah Cooper was a total head case.  a friend and i went to his web site years ago and looked around.  omfg was it bad.  the site played insanely patriotic choral music sung by the Marine Corp choir or something.  read up on his situation and at least at a glance it appeared that he probably beat his wife (she left the country to get away from him) and was in the habit of carrying guns at all times. the obvious paranoia made his death seem less like a conspiracy and more like a crazy loon holed up in his house, taking pot shots at law enforcement as his life collapsed around him.  he went out fighting.  for what?  i have no idea.  i doubt he did either


http://en.wikipedia.org

Beat his wife??? Did you just jump to that conclusion yourself after reading a wiki page?
He sent his wife and child away for their safety after his accedent. He was a vietnam vet and a very strong beiever in the U.S. constitution and its original message. Thats why he may have seemed overly patriotic, he was fighting to save his country from the forces he knew where a real threat.
Long and short, if your going to have a view on Bill Cooper do him the justice of reading 'Bohold a pale horse' before you write him off, not a wiki page thats bound to slate him as a nut, coz they need you to believe he is!

/wiki/Milton_William_Cooper


Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2011, 09:49:42 AM »

Bill Cooper was driven off a cliff by U.S. agents after releasing his first lot of info, he lost his leg in this accident and was threatened countless times. I'd be carrying a shotgun too!!
Thats why I said 'don't listen to the critics' because very few people know Coopers real story as few bother to research it before repeating the official story of his death.

Although I'd like to believe that I'm past the point of caring, I do hope this doesn't paint me in dayglo nutball bright orange.  Mr. Cooper's story is instructive to me in several points, a few of which I'll mention:

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

If they're out to get you, don't go out.

No good deed shall go unpunished.

Weapons are ineffective against government agencies who have the authority to kill you first, make up stories later.

Being smart does not make you wise.

I took Cooper's advice, (still do), listen to everyone, read everything, believe nothing until you do your own research.  His "Mystery Babylon" series still stands as truly great radio, although the show itself was sometimes lackluster, it was always raw and real.  (I listened on shortwave for years, including the evening his suicide-by-cop was announced)  I didn't just scan his website, I fully explored with him, read his stuff, the opposing views, figured out where he was right on and where full of crap.  I live a few hours from his former broadcast location and he and I had mutual friends, and so I am well aware of the man's weaknesses, his tough guy bantering, hollering almost, but miles above the likes of Alex Jones.  Why?  Because Cooper was the real thing, like him or not.  Not the type of person I'd schmooze with unless the S had really hit the fan, because his finger was definitely on the shitstorm trigger.  The types of LE who he pissed off and shot at don't even understand what the hell he was trying to alert their asses to.  So yeah, not too smart.  But I assure you, having not just casually checked it out myself (personal knowledge not necessarily appropriate to this venue), this guy was an agitated, but heartful, and dare I say honorable man.

Having said this, I still stand by my postulate that arms connected to unstable hands are never good.  Maybe one of the lessons here is don't know so much that it sends you over the edge, at least if you've got family and stuff.

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2011, 10:23:11 AM »
Elagently put my man. 8)

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2011, 11:53:24 AM »
Bill Cooper was driven off a cliff by U.S. agents after releasing his first lot of info, he lost his leg in this accident and was threatened countless times. I'd be carrying a shotgun too!!
Thats why I said 'don't listen to the critics' because very few people know Coopers real story as few bother to research it before repeating the official story of his death.
crazy loves to drape itself in the cloak of a hero.  but crazy is as crazy does.  and yes i assumed that the wife left to protect herself from crazy.  because cooper fits the profile.  there is no super secret government cover up.  no reptilian aliens living beneath the denver airport. and cooper's official story regarding his death is that he threatened someone with a handgun, refused to cooperate with local law enforcement, started shooting at the cops, and got his ass shot off.  after he shot two cops.  killing one - i think. 

cooper - right wing nut job.  disagree if you want.  if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ... then i have more important shit to worry about

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2011, 08:18:59 PM »
Ye, also part of the official story was that Cooper 'ran' shooting at police. Pretty good for a guy with one leg!

If the media says it  looks like a duck, do yourself a favour and look a bit closer.

I just hate the fact that the smear campaign on Cooper worked. Most people think he's a wacko, mostly coz he outted all the UFO and paranormal Bull****ers and they retaliate at any chance. You don't hear about Hoagland, Lear, Freedman, Molton howe etc getting assasinated for their reports!

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2011, 08:24:41 PM »
That's what I always liked about C2C, they don't hype it up. They just present the evidence for an informed audience.  However, I've noticed in the last few years that really, no new information is coming out... I've heard all the theory's many times. Maybe this explains why C2C is doing allot more shows lately about bio terrorism the oil industry.
i think the paranormal field has been spinning it's wheels for a while now with little or no progress.  the Chicago O'Hare Airport sighting is probably the most interesting thing that's happened in decades.  but nothing really meaningful came from it except anecdotal evidence

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2011, 09:29:58 PM »
Although I'd like to believe that I'm past the point of caring, I do hope this doesn't paint me in dayglo nutball bright orange.  Mr. Cooper's story is instructive to me in several points, a few of which I'll mention:

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
Maybe they are out to get you to help you... maybe you need it.

If they're out to get you, don't go out.
Hiding is a coping skill not a good one but it is coping... a little.

No good deed shall go unpunished.
You say the glass is half empty I say the glass is dirty.

Weapons are ineffective against government agencies who have the authority to kill you first, make up stories later.
And vice versa.

Being smart does not make you wise.

true but not being smart is a sure way to no wisdom.

I took Cooper's advice, (still do), listen to everyone, read everything, believe nothing until you do your own research.  His "Mystery Babylon" series still stands as truly great radio, although the show itself was sometimes lackluster, it was always raw and real.  (I listened on shortwave for years, including the evening his suicide-by-cop was announced)  I didn't just scan his website, I fully explored with him, read his stuff, the opposing views, figured out where he was right on and where full of crap.  I live a few hours from his former broadcast location and he and I had mutual friends, and so I am well aware of the man's weaknesses, his tough guy bantering, hollering almost, but miles above the likes of Alex Jones.  Why?  Because Cooper was the real thing, like him or not.  Not the type of person I'd schmooze with unless the S had really hit the fan, because his finger was definitely on the shitstorm trigger.  The types of LE who he pissed off and shot at don't even understand what the hell he was trying to alert their asses to.  So yeah, not too smart.  But I assure you, having not just casually checked it out myself (personal knowledge not necessarily appropriate to this venue), this guy was an agitated, but heartful, and dare I say honorable man.
Great you had a paradigm shift, an epiphany if you will... and that's great... keep moving and learning... cuz one trick is no trick at all.

Having said this, I still stand by my postulate that arms connected to unstable hands are never good.  Maybe one of the lessons here is don't know so much that it sends you over the edge, at least if you've got family and stuff.

It's not so much learning stuff can be dangerous as learning only one side of an issue leads to poor results.

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2011, 05:28:31 PM »
Onan,

I think I hear you man.  I have a sometimes annoying (fun for me) habit of pointing out both sides to leftist/rightist opiners, and have been accused of being a raging member of the "far-middle", I 'spose I enjoy the ensuing whatever.  You know, I also used to enjoy looking through binoculars bassackwardly also.  Maybe that was the start of it...

Being a member of the extreme middle is no disgrace where I live (AZ), perhaps best practice, just to keep some perspective.  Understand I am in the state currently with the most self-acknowledged extreme whacks that you could find on any side of any issue- from killer racist militia pricks to dudes that I want to deny my genetic connection with 'cause they want to take the Southwest back for F-ing Mexico!(?)  I'm more about giving Mexico back to Mexico myself heh. These guys claim to be opposed to each other , me thinks they're the same goons.  BTW, 1st generation generation US born Mexicano living very near the border talking at you here.  Real familiar with the reality of the drama from the inside out.  It's always only the common people overlooked in the dimwit, commonly accepted political fracas.  I say this because I know/work and get on in life with the families who are forced and affected and argued over and maligned.  This is the real tamale that neither Fox nor NPR can resolve or hardly even present.  It's real easy however, to make all this wham damn doodle media noise, completely drowning out the signal.  My opinion.

On the paranormal thing, has anybody noticed that the paranormal has been exceedingly normal since about the time that fumblegums crashed the show into the towers?  (my daily devotional George ping)

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2011, 10:09:52 PM »
Onan,


Being a member of the extreme middle is no disgrace where I live (AZ), perhaps best practice, just to keep some perspective...  This is the real tamale that neither Fox nor NPR can resolve or hardly even present.  It's real easy however, to make all this wham damn doodle media noise, completely drowning out the signal.  My opinion.


I lived in Phx for 12 years... hard to believe I have been gone from there for as long as I have... I fully understand the safety on the middle in Az. It's a crazy state... I was at a dairy queen with my (at the time) 2 year old daughter... A guy comes in with a double under the arms holsters with military colt style 45's and he's drunk... you cant make this shit up... I start to move my daughter and myself out the door. My daughter must have sensed my concern... she starts to cry and spills her ice cream cone on this guys shoe... like I said you cant make this shit up. At first I think the guy is gonna be mellow cuz he has a buzz... but he has 2 guns... I'm not takin a chance. I quickly say sorry and try to open the door to leave; ole 2 gun says " your girl needs to apologize to me"... I say I will have her apologize as soon as the police get here. Luckily that worked he shut up and we left... It's a crazy place.


Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2011, 11:14:50 PM »
Onan ... i can't believe someone can walk around in public in AZ like that.  insane.  armed AND drunk?!!!  i'm amazed that there aren't massacres every week there

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2011, 11:28:00 PM »
Onan ... i can't believe someone can walk around in public in AZ like that.  insane.  armed AND drunk?!!!  i'm amazed that there aren't massacres every week there

that was in 1982... 28 years ago... now a faction of gun rights people think they need more open access and with no police interference.

Re: when i became disillusioned with the whole paranormal 'thing'
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2011, 12:42:51 AM »
insanity.  let's make AZ the gun state.  all the gun nuts can go there and snuggle with their firearms till their junk falls off.  the rest of us can live in security in the other states where that kind of crap is not allowed.  there's a concealed carry permit in NC which kind of makes me nervous.  especially given NC's horrible history of law enforcement being bungled or just outright corrupt