Topic: Your Supernatural Experiences

[MABUSE]

Have any of you experienced anything that defies explanation?  Please tell us about it.  This is my favorite Art Bell-type topic.

 
I don't remember who sent me this but it is of the same type and REALLY creeps me out...something about the face...like it is already partly skeletonized, look into the mirror in this pic to see what I mean.
 
**M**

[Smoky]

my parents were turned off once when i was a kid, they took my brother and wouldn't let me get out of my bed. They kept pushing me back..pressing on my forehead. They screwed with time somehow. They smelled bad and fucked with me a bit.

[Sybil]

....ball lightning seems pretty fascinating. 

ball lightning. LOL!

[Tom from Hong Kong]

I started to read up on UFOs, etc. about three years ago, and about a year into this mini-adventure, I truly came to understand how inter-connected high strangeness is to UFOlogy.  Phil Imbrogno, whom I believe is one of the most credible researchers of the paranormal, details this in his most recent books.  Indeed, UFOs may be one of a number of manifestations of this inter-dimensional force at play.  One of the scariest stories I have heard is what happened to Imbrogno's "dream team" back in the late 70s when they encountered what otherwise would be described as a demon or nasty djinn in Westchester County: a number of the researchers were warned off and two actually died, one through his own doing.  Language (reverse English) was picked up on a tape, and numerous phenomenon were witnessed. The poor family in question seemed to be plagued inter-generationally (not unlike abductions).


While I don't mind being an armchair researcher, getting too close to this stuff can potentially have its effects. When younger I used a Ouija board once with my mother, felt the pointer move on its own, and swore afterwards never to touch it again. For those who constantly bump up against this high strangeness not of their own doing, one needs to wonder what is causing this, while others never get exposed to it (the "control group", as someone called it above).

[M. Knight]

...felt the pointer move on its own, and swore afterwards never to touch it again.

ummmm.  ok.

[MV]

ummmm.  ok.

you don't believe that's possible?

[MABUSE]

October last I used a ouija board in an attempt to contact the ghost of a long-dead, formerly great radio program called Coast to Coast.  Strangely,  all that happened was that the planchette kept repeating 1111 and 2012 over and over and over and over and....

**M**

[MV]

speaking of ouija boards, i wish art would just go ahead and tell his fucking ouija story rather than referencing it repeatedly and refusing to go into details.  i mean... how bad could it REALLY be?  come on.  it's not like he's being asked to recall the moment of his mom's rape by 4 street thugs on a sketchy barbados street corner as he helplessly looked on in shame like some balding husband in a cuckold video.

[Recovering Noorholic]

speaking of ouija boards, i wish art would just go ahead and tell his fucking ouija story rather than referencing it repeatedly and refusing to go into details.  i mean... how bad could it REALLY be?  come on.  it's not like he's being asked to recall the moment of his mom's rape by 4 street thugs on a sketchy barbados street corner as he helplessly looked on in shame like some balding husband in a cuckold video.

HA!

The closest I've had to anything paranormal is the aforementioned sleep paralysis which I used to have all the time when I was 7-10 y/o, though, of course, there's a medical explanation behind that so it's not really paranormal.

I never encountered the hag during the paralyiss though I did experience the suffocating bodily pressure. I tend to sleep on my side so perhaps I would have seen her if I'd rolled over. Or maybe she was doing me with a strap-on from behind.

[MV]

Or maybe she was doing me with a strap-on from behind.

ok, i'll admit, this made me guffaw.

[b_dubb]

I've had at least one possible experience. I was surprised to find it was a very common one, too - thanks to C2CAM.

I was probably 8 years old or so when I awoke from sleeping in a cold sweat and numbing sensation all over my body. I felt an extreme sense of terror when I realized I was awake, but couldn't move. I attempted to call out to my parents, but unfortunately, I couldn't speak either. At the height of my struggling, an old, witch-like face of a decrepit woman  loomed in towards me and screamed like a banshee right in my face. As she did this, it felt as if all the energy I had in me was sucked directly out of my body. I don't remember what happened after that for awhile, but when I regained full consciousness she was gone, and I could move (ever so slightly)..and speak, even though it was very weak and raspy. My parents soon came in to my calling out for help, and (as any sane parent would), they told me it was one of my frightmares and I was fine. But since that night, I've never felt quite the same health-wise.

Years and years later, I discovered that what I experienced has happened throughout history in an almost exactly similar fashion. It's referred to by medical professionals as 'sleep paralysis", but there is no exact explanation as to the almost ever-present appearance of the woman during this event. Due to this fact, many others call it the 'Old Hag Syndrome". 

Apparently, as the story goes, the old hag visits primarily young males and takes their youthful energy for her own purposes. There's supposed to be something specifically about the energy of males. I believe on one of Art's shows, someone said that it's because she does something "sexually" to the victim.

So, long story short, I may have been raped by a witch.

most hag syndrome / abduction episodes can be explained by Sleep Terror / Night Terror

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_terror

[b_dubb]

i grew up about a mile north of the Dayton International Airport.  back in the late 70's i was in the living room which had a West facing bay window which was very large.  my brother (17 at the time) and i (8 at the time) were busy wrestling, beating on each other.  good brotherly fun.  when suddenly we both stopped, looked at each other, and immediately knew something was WRONG.  at that point we both looked out the West facing LARGE window and saw a huge disc shipped craft pass slowly, deliberately overhead.  i remember the disc changing in appearance - at first a disc with aluminum surface, then two objects - a disc and a large sphere connected by what looked like lightning (the sphere looking like a small sun), and then the ship looked very old.  we watched the ship fly over the sight till we could no longer see it.  as it was basically above the house.  then we could see it again in the East (again a large window here facing to the East) as the disc seemed to turn up and begin to rise and then suddenly GONE.  shortly after that, two F4 Phantoms from Wright Patterson AFB went screaming overhead - heard a sonic boom here which is noteworthy because that kind of speed is forbidden except under emergency conditions.  The F4 Phantoms looked like triangular DOTS in the sky as they zoomed overhead.  the disc was about the size of an aircraft carrier compared to the size of the F4's.  if they were at the same attitude, that's roughly what the size comparison would be in terms of scale.  immediately after that event i have no memory of what happened.  except that we were both really scared.  i think i may have gone to bed because i was so shocked.  no idea really.

years later i was reading a UFO book which described the incident we witnessed.  Air Traffic Controllers at the Dayton International Airport picked it up on radar and were able to actually view it from the tower since it was only a mile north of the tower.  Wright Patt AFB also picked it up on their radar (Wright Patt was only 15 minutes away) and scrambled fighters to intercept.  newspapers, police and emergency personnel (i'm assuming fire department) were contacted with reports. 

the sighting occurred in late summer ( Aug/Sept ?) and during the late afternoon.  naysayers frequently bring up the weather balloon confound.  weather balloons don't travel at high speeds in a totally linear path.  i don't believe this was an experimental aircraft because the amount of thrust required to keep something that massive in the air would create so much noise that everyone within 15 miles would have been made deaf from the roar of the engines.  and since there was no noise you would have to float the idea that the USAF had figured out anti-gravity back in the 70's.  skeptics are welcome to try and find alternative explanations.  but they won't change my opinion that what i saw was a craft produced by an alien intelligence from another place and possibly another time.

additionally ... there have been multiple events in the Dayton area that merit discussion.  one that i remember that NEVER get's discussed was an event that occurred in 1987-1988.  during rush hour traffic, a glowing red orb passed at low altitude over the city of Dayton, Ohio.  cars, trucks, and all electrical equipment within a several mile radius were rendered inactive.  so basically everyone in rush hour traffic was left stuck on freeways, bridges, roads while this glowing red object passed overhead.  people were getting out of their cars and watching the object pass overhead.  so imagine thousands of people standing by their motionless cars on a freeway during rush hour (afternoon - happened around 5pm).  people STANDING ON THE FREEWAY.  watching a glowing red object fly overhead.  that night on the news, the news anchor, visibly shaken and confused, reported that the Air Force said the object was a satellite in a decaying orbit with an exposed nuclear power source that was emitting an EMP which caused the localized electrical failures. 

what's scarier?  alien spacecraft?  or a nuclear bomb falling to earth from outer space?

when people discuss disclosure i usually respond with WHY?  our government won't tell us the truth about why we go to war.  where the bailout to the financial sector went.  they don't tell anyone about anything.  EVER.  they will dole out bullshit at the drop of a hat.  but they never discuss the truth.  so why do we look to our lying government/military to tell us the truth about ANYTHING?  if they know anything about aliens/alien technology, they don't want to disclose anything about it.  because they'd have to share with our "friends".  because we learned from the atom bomb/h bomb program that once that knowledge is shared it's only a matter of time till someone really unpleasant get's their hands on it

so ... believe.  don't believe.  it's up to you.  but don't wait for the government to tell the truth because that is NOT in their nature. 

b_dubb

ps - i have two other ufo stories (but the big one is described here) and couple of ghost stories.  i'm patiently waiting for my bigfoot experience.  but growing increasingly convinced the big hairy dude is merely a mythic beasty.

[punkinpie]

i grew up about a mile north of the Dayton International Airport.  back in the late 70's i was in the living room which had a West facing bay window which was very large.  my brother (17 at the time) and i (8 at the time) were busy wrestling, beating on each other.  good brotherly fun.  when suddenly we both stopped, looked at each other, and immediately knew something was WRONG.  at that point we both looked out the West facing LARGE window and saw a huge disc shipped craft pass slowly, deliberately overhead.  i remember the disc changing in appearance - at first a disc with aluminum surface, then two objects - a disc and a large sphere connected by what looked like lightning (the sphere looking like a small sun), and then the ship looked very old.  we watched the ship fly over the sight till we could no longer see it.  as it was basically above the house.  then we could see it again in the East (again a large window here facing to the East) as the disc seemed to turn up and begin to rise and then suddenly GONE.  shortly after that, two F4 Phantoms from Wright Patterson AFB went screaming overhead - heard a sonic boom here which is noteworthy because that kind of speed is forbidden except under emergency conditions.  The F4 Phantoms looked like triangular DOTS in the sky as they zoomed overhead.  the disc was about the size of an aircraft carrier compared to the size of the F4's.  if they were at the same attitude, that's roughly what the size comparison would be in terms of scale.  immediately after that event i have no memory of what happened.  except that we were both really scared.  i think i may have gone to bed because i was so shocked.  no idea really.

years later i was reading a UFO book which described the incident we witnessed.  Air Traffic Controllers at the Dayton International Airport picked it up on radar and were able to actually view it from the tower since it was only a mile north of the tower.  Wright Patt AFB also picked it up on their radar (Wright Patt was only 15 minutes away) and scrambled fighters to intercept.  newspapers, police and emergency personnel (i'm assuming fire department) were contacted with reports. 

the sighting occurred in late summer ( Aug/Sept ?) and during the late afternoon.  naysayers frequently bring up the weather balloon confound.  weather balloons don't travel at high speeds in a totally linear path.  i don't believe this was an experimental aircraft because the amount of thrust required to keep something that massive in the air would create so much noise that everyone within 15 miles would have been made deaf from the roar of the engines.  and since there was no noise you would have to float the idea that the USAF had figured out anti-gravity back in the 70's.  skeptics are welcome to try and find alternative explanations.  but they won't change my opinion that what i saw was a craft produced by an alien intelligence from another place and possibly another time.

additionally ... there have been multiple events in the Dayton area that merit discussion.  one that i remember that NEVER get's discussed was an event that occurred in 1987-1988.  during rush hour traffic, a glowing red orb passed at low altitude over the city of Dayton, Ohio.  cars, trucks, and all electrical equipment within a several mile radius were rendered inactive.  so basically everyone in rush hour traffic was left stuck on freeways, bridges, roads while this glowing red object passed overhead.  people were getting out of their cars and watching the object pass overhead.  so imagine thousands of people standing by their motionless cars on a freeway during rush hour (afternoon - happened around 5pm).  people STANDING ON THE FREEWAY.  watching a glowing red object fly overhead.  that night on the news, the news anchor, visibly shaken and confused, reported that the Air Force said the object was a satellite in a decaying orbit with an exposed nuclear power source that was emitting an EMP which caused the localized electrical failures. 

what's scarier?  alien spacecraft?  or a nuclear bomb falling to earth from outer space?

when people discuss disclosure i usually respond with WHY?  our government won't tell us the truth about why we go to war.  where the bailout to the financial sector went.  they don't tell anyone about anything.  EVER.  they will dole out bullshit at the drop of a hat.  but they never discuss the truth.  so why do we look to our lying government/military to tell us the truth about ANYTHING?  if they know anything about aliens/alien technology, they don't want to disclose anything about it.  because they'd have to share with our "friends".  because we learned from the atom bomb/h bomb program that once that knowledge is shared it's only a matter of time till someone really unpleasant get's their hands on it

so ... believe.  don't believe.  it's up to you.  but don't wait for the government to tell the truth because that is NOT in their nature. 

b_dubb

ps - i have two other ufo stories (but the big one is described here) and couple of ghost stories.  i'm patiently waiting for my bigfoot experience.  but growing increasingly convinced the big hairy dude is merely a mythic beasty.

Oh, creepy! 

I grew up in Richmond, IN, about 40 miles east of Dayton.  I remember when I was about 18 or 19 (93 or 94) I was driving down Main Street and there was something in the sky.  It was a HUGE orange, red colored thing that sort of looked like a satellite.  This was in the late afternoon.  I drove to the mall, did my shopping and drove back home and it was still there.  I didn't have much reaction to it and just chalked it up to living that close to Wright-Patt. 

My husband and I went on a trip last month to Cincinnati and we took a day to go to the AFB Museum.  It was such a cool trip.  Although you have to wait for hours and show an ID now to get into Kennedy's Air Force One.  We didn't want to wait that long, so we just took off.  They also seemed to have moved a lot of the space stuff.  That was a bummer.

[MV]

bdubb... great post. Finally got around to giving it a proper read.

The whole EMP explanation from the govt doesn't make sense to me. Doesn't an EMP permanently damage electronics? I'd think each of those cars would have had to be towed from the freeway that day, and there certainly would have been no nerwscast that evening had an EMP descended upon Dayton. I just don't get it. Great post.

[MV]

I've had one UFO experience. It was in 1996 when I was 16. I noticed a stationary object in the night sky which looked oddly out of place. From my perspective, it was about the size of all of the stars surrounding it. It then went from completely stationary to moving at comet speed in an instant. I was alone, so nobody shared the experience with me. That was the only time in my life that I saw something inexplicable in the sky.

[punkinpie]

Here are some pictures from Wright Patt.  One of the planes totally looks like a UFO.

[b_dubb]

looks like a stealth fighter and blackbird

nope ... stealth fighter and bomber.  i'm guessing these are non-functional, early prototype mock ups or something.  as these planes cost millions ... um ... billions?  ... of dollars each ... i can't see the Air Force parking a perfectly good one in a museum.  but ... who knows?  our defense budget is insane

[MV]

when i see fighter planes like these, i am in awe of what humanity is capable of achieving.  we've moved from the initial use of tools and fire to the use of supersonic stealth fighters.  we really take it for granted, but it's something startling to consider from the proper perspective.

[b_dubb]

watch the movie "Flubber" and ignore the Disney cheese.  instead, note how the Professor character putters around town in his old Ford Model A hunk o' crap at the first part of the movie and then at the end he get's intercepted by a couple of Super Saber fighter jets.  so ... within the span of 50 years we went from primitive internal combustion engines, mass produced automobiles, and then super sonic flight.  that's a HELL of a leap in such a short time.  and possibly the only reason to watch that movie.  a funny coincidence that the Professor is seen as a UFO on the radar at the end when they scramble fighters after his flying jalopy

b

[mylesstam]

I haven't had too many strange experiences. Well, except for following the Grateful Dead those 5 years. Just stuff like watching my coffee cup, which was sitting on the desk a few inches next to my hand, slowly glide about 8-10 inches across my desk. The logical thinking was that the bottom of the cup was wet and there was some sort of sliding friction that occured. But the desk was a perfectly flat and level surface. I decided to push the cup after it stopped moving just to see how much force was needed to make the cup slide. The full cup of coffee was not easily moved. There had been a few times in that apartment when I would just wake up out of a sound sleep because my unconscious mind thought there was someone in my apartment next to my bed. I jumped up thinking there was a burgular or someone robbing my one room hovel. Since I live in the NEW YORK CITY I would look into the darkness, listen for any movement that would indicate a mouse or something that flew through the open window. I found out later there was an empty apartment one door down where a lady had died 15 years ago. Well, after I told whatever it was not to come into my apartment anymore all of the weird stuff ended.
 
Another event happened on I-5 near Fresno area. About 8 or so lights the size of car lights but not as bright went west to east over the highway approx. 50 yards ahead of my car and about 30-40 feet above the highway. My mind registered the lights as I was highway driving and they disappeared into the field within a few seconds. I thought to myself there was a bridge up ahead that a truck went over. But within 5-10 seconds I realized there was no bridge ahead or behind me that travelled over I-5. I suddenly realized that an object had flown over the highway. An airplane, as I looked to my right for an airport, a landing pad, anything to tell a pilot that this was the place to land, but there was only a pitch black field for miles and miles around. The closest lights were well in the distance, at least a mile away. Something had flown over I-5 and disappeared into the field next to the highway. To this day I wish I pulled over and walked down the highway to take a closer look into the pitch black fields next to 1-5.

[11angeleyes11]

Have you ever hadd a loved one, friend, relative or perhaps even a pet pass away and they leave sounds through earthly mediums as their spirts leaves this realm?  I think this can happen.  Twice this has happened, and it may only be a coincidence, but it does make you think.
 
Almost ten years ago my sister passed away at nite in a car wreck.  My mother and stepfather lived many states away and did not receive the news until the next morning.  My mother related that that evening her smoke alarm was tweeking in a strange pattern.  It was almost simultaneous with the time of my sister's passing after we discussed it.  The batteries were not low, nor was there smoke or a fire.  It only happened that one time and did not happen again for the time of them living there which was a few years.  She feels that it was my sister's spirit communicating through that frequency to let her know that her spirit was leaving the earth. 
 
Well almost two weeks ago, it happened to me, bu this was a pet of mine.  One of my manx cats, Charleston Bigeo, was ill, and I had him isolated so that he could be doctored and not near the other cats.  In the middle of the nite, actually while I was working on the computer and listening to Coast as I sometimes do, my fire alarm started chirping.   Now, I know that they do this when the battery was low, but I replaced the battery, and still it chirped.  Then, the one in the next room did, too.  There was no smoke or fire danger.  It stopped chirping on its own a few times and then stopped.  Before, I went to bed, I checked on Biggs, and he had passed away to cat heaven.  His spirit let me know, since I was not in the room with him, that he was departing. He let me know through that frequency. 
 
I know that people sometimes try to rationalize things, but I am not.  I simply thought it was odd.  Then, I recalled the first account.  Spirits may communicate with us throught this or other means as they leave this earth.  I was just curious if anyone else had any similar accounts.   

[Q]

I've never had anything like this happen to me personally but I've read about them before.
I find it fascinating yet chilling in other ways just entertaining the thought of the possibility that this can be.

Depending upon ones' belief system concerning the paranormal and their own take on spirituality - there could be
multiple possibilities to account for such events and each individual will have to draw their own conclusion as to such.
Thanks for sharing that.

[punkinpie]

That is an interesting theory, angeleyes.  I completely believe that it is possible.  Strange things happen that we just can't explain.

When you heard the odd chirping of your smoke detector the last time did you automatically think of your sister's death and wonder if someone else passed? 

Please accept my condolences on your pet's passing.  They give us so much companionship and it hurts so much.

I had something odd happen to me in my house about two years ago that made me run to the phone to call my Mom because I was afraid that something had happened to her.  I was in my house alone in the middle of the day with no radio or television on.  As plain as day I heard a feminine voice say my name out loud.  It sounded urgent, like "HEY, PAY ATTENTION!" or "SNAP OUT OF IT!"  It was not in my head.  I heard it with my ears.  To the best of my knowledge I'm not schizophrenic.  My house is not haunted.  I called my best friend, she was fine.  After that I got a little paranoid that something bad was going to happen to me.  I tried to be a little more alert while driving and stuff.

During readings, I've asked two psychics what they thought the voice was.  One said that it was my spirit guide, that she was a teacher in the early 1900's and she'd been watching over me my entire life.  The other said that it was my consciousness manifesting itself.

If it were a dead relative I wouldn't know.  I didn't have the opportunity to know my extended family. 

[MV]

myles, i don't know why your story reminded me of this, but it did.


as i've mentioned previously, i used to drive a truck all over the country.  i've been to every city, everywhere.  almost literally.  anyway...


this happened twice to me.  i'd be on a simple two lane road with no paths of entrance or egress, see a car passing me in my mirror, look up, and then look back in the mirror to find that the car has vanished.  not beside, behind, or in front of me.  i can recall two specific instances when that happened.


when you travel the country like that for a lengthy enough period of time, you are GOING to see strange, inexplicable things.  it's the nature of that occupation.

[GuerrillaUnReal]

As we were talking about tonight... here's the pics from the Abandoned Insane Asylum


 

Notice no Orbs

[robin]

I know this is going to sound whacked, but here we go..... I attempted suicide when I was 22 (I'm now 44.)  I won't go into the boring details of why I attempted suicide, I'll just explain the "supernatural" part (I put it in quotes because I don't know what else to call it.)
I took approx. 100 sleeping pills with a lot of vodka (and almost died, actually.)  I was hallucinating after a few hours.  But the main part of the story, for this website, is that I was being poked over and over and "taunted"  by very tall "black" "creatures".  (I put "black" in quotations because I don't mean "black" as in African American, I mean "black" as in they were burnt from a fire and their skin was charred.  And I use the term "creatures" because they were quasi-human.  And I mean "taunted" and poked as in I was being tortured by melevolent beings.  And I mean "tall" as in they were maybe 6 or 7 feet tall.  They were also very very skinny.) This really really happened..but was it a hallucination or a real event?  I've always wondered wtf .. .anyway.... do you guys think I went to "hell" and was punished, or what???  I'm so confused.  I'm not Christian, but my family is......was I influenced by their beliefs, or what ?
Wow, after reading this, it sound CRAAAAZY, but it really happened, and, mind you, I have a subscription to Skeptical Inquirer magazine (for the past 3 years).  I'm a skeptical and rational person.  What do you guys think of my experience? 
 

[MV]

I know this is going to sound whacked, but here we go..... I attempted suicide when I was 22 (I'm now 44.)  I won't go into the boring details of why I attempted suicide, I'll just explain the "supernatural" part (I put it in quotes because I don't know what else to call it.)
I took approx. 100 sleeping pills with a lot of vodka (and almost died, actually.)  I was hallucinating after a few hours.  But the main part of the story, for this website, is that I was being poked over and over and "taunted"  by very tall "black" "creatures".  (I put "black" in quotations because I don't mean "black" as in African American, I mean "black" as in they were burnt from a fire and their skin was charred.  And I use the term "creatures" because they were quasi-human.  And I mean "taunted" and poked as in I was being tortured by melevolent beings.  And I mean "tall" as in they were maybe 6 or 7 feet tall.  They were also very very skinny.) This really really happened..but was it a hallucination or a real event?  I've always wondered wtf .. .anyway.... do you guys think I went to "hell" and was punished, or what???  I'm so confused.  I'm not Christian, but my family is......was I influenced by their beliefs, or what ?
Wow, after reading this, it sound CRAAAAZY, but it really happened, and, mind you, I have a subscription to Skeptical Inquirer magazine (for the past 3 years).  I'm a skeptical and rational person.  What do you guys think of my experience?

wow, that certainly is a story.  thanks for sharing it.  there's simply no way to say with any authority what it was you experienced.  do you lean toward believing you were hallucinating?  or do you believe it was more?

let me just say the following: in the course of my life, i have had "encounters" which intimately familiarized me with the hallucinatory experience.  in that state, it can be (and often is) impossible to separate the real world from the chemically generated world.  needless to say, the brain is capable of rendering any number of experiences, some of which are pleasurable, and some of which are not.  obviously, if you were in fact hallucinating, yours would have to lean toward the latter.  for an almost unlimited number of reasons, i hope you were merely hallucinating. 

a very fascinating accounting of your experience... and a troubling one, too.

[robin]

MV, thank you for your thoughtful response.  I appreciate that.  I'm going to bed now, but will respond tomorrow.  However, before I retire, I must get this off my chest: Why will nobody here comment on my beautiful Nathan Thurm avatar?      You people are mad!

[MV]

However, before I retire, I must get this off my chest: Why will nobody here comment on my beautiful Nathan Thurm avatar?      You people are mad!

after you've seen this user's avatar, you've seen everything.

[valdez]

...What do you guys think of my experience?

     Very freaky.  Sounds like they were ready to take you to hell.  Glad they didn't get the opportunity.  Welcome.

...Why will nobody here comment on my beautiful Nathan Thurm avatar?      You people are mad!

     You think we didn't notice?  It's so funny that you would think that.