Topic: drug war

[Frys Girl]

so i hope you saw this insanity going on in mexico. I know noory has been ranting about it like a maniac. but what I hope is that instead of telling people to stop doping and sexing, they will legalize all this crap. Starting with POT! That asshole bill o'reilly needs to stop demonizing pot. I'm not a smoker myself but I'm all about legalization. Even the hard stuff.

[seven7]

I agree.  Legalize it, regulate it, and tax the living fuck out of it.

[AmericanGothic]

You think if it's legal there won't be addicts and thieves stealing it? You think if it's legalized people won't be killing people for it?
Try working in law enforcement for a while and maybe you'll learn some things about why legalizing it is wrong on hundreds of levels.

[EvB]

You think if it's legal there won't be addicts and thieves stealing it? You think if it's legalized people won't be killing people for it?
Try working in law enforcement for a while and maybe you'll learn some things about why legalizing it is wrong on hundreds of levels.

Some who work for law enforcement would agree with you.  Some would not.  We have legal tobacco, and legal alcohol.  Prohibition (in relation to alcohol) didn't work.  Neither will the prohibition against pot.

Will there be addicts?  Well, alcohol and tobacco cause addiction.  As far as I know, there is not evidence that pot creates physical addiction. 

Will people become addicts in various ways if more of these substances were legalized?  Maybe - but how is that different than how things are now? Will people steal? Some people will always steal. 

Sorry, but I just don't get your point.

[Frys Girl]

So if I don't work in law enforcement, my opinion is not important on this matter, huh? FUCK that. I'm sick of "fearing my government". America was founded on a government by the people and for the people. Well the people are funding a drug war that has failed. Gun policy that has let criminals get automatic weapons to go back to mexico and drive us to spend more to stop them.

Americans DO DRUGS. Obviously they like it. They like to turn to that crap even more when they are sad, overworked, depressed, in bad marriages, or George W. Bush in Yale University. LOL. But what I'm driving at is this idea that "it's so bad and scary.....oohhhhh." well that's why these kids run to it thinking it must be fun.

I have two students who were arrested for pot possession. IT has ruined their lives. They are doing badly in school, they have a "record" now, so they are hopeless about future work opportunities. But again, Rush Limbaugh, who had an addiction to LEGAL, expensive drugs, is getting a freaking promotion because the Republican party sucks large dildos for a living and can't find a "leader". HAHA.

I'm not law enforcement, but I'm sick of law enforcement wasting resources and their blood on chasing pot dealers, or other drug dealers. The drug war has failed.
This country is failing at so much. The world is beating us. I can go to Iran and get great healthcare. People here are so fat they have to buy 3 fucking plane tickets. We can't afford to take care of the "sick" but war on Saddam was important (I'm happy about this, accidentally though, as a Kurd). We have a wasteful population who is hell bent on "values" and "pro-life", except when it comes to basic socialized medicine that would end the pro-death system. Oh and the middle name of our President is causing some very "patriotic" beer drinkers to have an ulcer. Maybe not having socialized medicine in exchange for drug war IS good these people usually dunk themselves off anyway.

So yes, enjoy your "illegal" status for these drugs. Enjoy the wonderful by-products in society. I hope you never get in between a drug fight. Ugh.

[Centurion73]

You think if it's legal there won't be addicts and thieves stealing it? You think if it's legalized people won't be killing people for it?
Try working in law enforcement for a while and maybe you'll learn some things about why legalizing it is wrong on hundreds of levels.

I would like to know the hundreds of levels that it is wrong on, the studies that the information comes from and whom funded them? If that is your opinion that is fine but it is not fact. Fact is D.A.R.E programs do not work, if they did would not drug use, crimes be lower now after all the years of MANDATED DARE classes? This has been known for years from those that work it I am sure any educated law enforcement officer knows this to be true, in case they don't they should do the research or read web.grinnell.edu/individuals/rootwile/darepaper.html

You think if it's legal there won't be addicts and thieves stealing it? You think if it's legalized people won't be killing people for it?

Legalized or not this will not stop ever, has ANY legalization or penal law ever stopped anything? No, it has never stopped anything it may reduce it in a small percentage of society but never stop it. You can legislate acts and actions but you cannot control the intent and acts of others by mere legislation. If you could we would not need law enforcement, jails, or prisons.

Legalization will reduce the strain on the CJ system and resources drastically.
 More studies here groups.google.com/group/nj.general/browse_thread/thread/68449da4129a867c
www.reconsider.org/issues/education/dare.htm
www.computer-forensic-technician.com/wordpress/does-dare-work/

[Nboy]

The Mexican drug war is becoming an American drug war...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090301/ts_nm/us_usa_mexico_drugs

Whether you are for or against legalization, something has to be done. I live in Tennessee, near the Cherokee national forest and the Smokies. I used to be a fairly avid hiker, but as of late I have stayed pretty far away from my old haunts because of gang activity. Yeah, I know that sounds ridiculous. Gang activity in the woods? Well, MS-13 is a growing presence in the area and over the last year or so, they have found the bodies of six people up there. Three of which were tied to trees and burned alive. From what I have read, these gangs are now extending their reaches into more rural areas. Namely, because there really isn't enough police presence to deter them. Which is what the seem to prefer, if you look at the situation in Mexico.

 Honestly, I think legalizing would only do so much. We seem to forget that these cartels are not just trafficking drugs, but people. The bigger issue, I think, is the absolutely FUBARed state of Mexico. I have no idea how to fix that, but it seems to me that Mexico is a time bomb waiting to go off.

C2C actually did a half decent show about the Mexican-American border featuring Chris Burgard and his documentary The Border back in June. http://www.bordermovie.com/. I have yet to see the movie, but during the interview Burgard told some incredibly awful stories. One which stuck in my head was the trophy trees. Bascially, smugglers take the women they are smuggling, rape them (for days in most cases), and then hang their panties on trees/cactus in front of their house to gloat over their prize. And it isn't like these are isolated events. These cartels are known players in the sex slave trade. http://www.usborderpatrol.com/Border_Patrol880.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKBQHPYdLq8

 I do think legalizing pot would be a step in the right direction. But, thats only a fraction of the problem. And let me say, before anyone responds calling me a racist or that I am reducing the problem to immigration, that that this is strictly about the borders and cartels. I am not commenting one way or the other over illegal immigration, but the activities of cartels. In all honesty,  If I were born into a system as shitty as Mexico's, I would do everything in my power to escape it.

[Dego]

Well, MS-13 is a growing presence in the area and over the last year or so, they have found the bodies of six people up there. Three of which were tied to trees and burned alive.

Just doing the jobs Americans won't do....Pfffft.

Check this out-
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/01/13/daughter.for.sale/index.html

[Frys Girl]

MS 13 scares the SHIT out of me. I'm convinced that the two times I was burgled, MS 13 was involved. In DC, they are a major problem. I don't know how many of you have immigrated to the USA, but it's butt freakin expensive. I know it's not fun to be an "illegal", but it's still unfair to enjoy America without having to go through the loopholes that people from euro/mid east and asian countries have to go through!
They steal from our neighborhood all the time and pawn things in PG county. Here's the fun thing about when I had things stolen from my car/house, someone used my cell phone to call his friend. When I got a new phone, his buddy still called my number because it was the same #. MS 13 - dumb shit, violent criminals.

[danDNA]

I would like to know the hundreds of levels that it is wrong on, the studies that the information comes from and whom funded them? If that is your opinion that is fine but it is not fact. Fact is D.A.R.E programs do not work, if they did would not drug use, crimes be lower now after all the years of MANDATED DARE classes? This has been known for years from those that work it I am sure any educated law enforcement officer knows this to be true, in case they don't they should do the research or read web.grinnell.edu/individuals/rootwile/darepaper.html

Legalized or not this will not stop ever, has ANY legalization or penal law ever stopped anything? No, it has never stopped anything it may reduce it in a small percentage of society but never stop it. You can legislate acts and actions but you cannot control the intent and acts of others by mere legislation. If you could we would not need law enforcement, jails, or prisons.

Legalization will reduce the strain on the CJ system and resources drastically.
 More studies here groups.google.com/group/nj.general/browse_thread/thread/68449da4129a867c
www.reconsider.org/issues/education/dare.htm
www.computer-forensic-technician.com/wordpress/does-dare-work/

WORD THE FUCK UP SISTREN

[Pirate King Atomsk]

1. Legalize natural drugs such as marijuana, mushrooms, and cocaine. Tax marijuana to a reasonable extent with no legal limitations on quantity, but limit legal cocaine and mushroom consumption and tax the fuck out of it.

2. Mexico is fucked up.

3. MS-13 members are retarded. Seriously, I know a few here in LA.

4. I love Calvin pissing on their flag. Hobbes should come in and dump on it.

[EvB]

MS 13 scares the SHIT out of me.

Awwwww. c'mon Fry's Girl!  This guy looks sweet and innocent enough!

[Centurion73]

MS 13 scares the SHIT out of me. I'm convinced that the two times I was burgled,

You learn well Grasshopper 

MS 13 - dumb shit, violent criminals

.

Do NOT think they are all dumb shits that would be your downfall but violent, YES.

[Frys Girl]

You learn well Grasshopper 
.

Do NOT think they are all dumb shits that would be your downfall but violent, YES.

Dude MS 13 is the kind of gang that rapes women for initiations. I mean, I'm not saying other gangs are playing tic tac toe, but isn't that a little weird?

Yea they're probably smart Cent. Ok will anyone else admit to seeing that show on MSNBC called "locked up" ?? The shit that these guys do in jail is disgusting. They are so expensive to lock up. They are always doing weird shit like making knives out of soap. Jesus just sit and read a book or give them a TV if it means they'll stop costing so much money. In China, the people who poisoned people with melanin are already dead. Justice must be fast! translate that to latin and slap it on the flag.

[haloedorchid]

I think it's going to take some serious action to get the drug culture under control. I say speed up the trials and perform record levels of capital punishment. Think that's harsh? How about all of the narcoterrorism, violence, rapes, innocents murdered, beheadings, et al these gangs are responsible for? It's going to take hardcore actions to wrangle these people into submission.

They wanna play bad-boy tough guy, they face the ultimate punishment. Enough with the glamorizing of this bullshit in mainstream media, also. Maybe they should even build special prisons/holding facilities for these people with absolutely no way to connect to the outside world. No phone calls, no visitors. Solitary confinement 24/7. That way these people can't continue conducting their business with the outside through smuggled pre-paid cell phones or notes or corrupt prison guards.

My husband is from Mexico and is ashamed of the way his country's government has failed to accomplish much of anything by way of stopping these narcoterrorists. Most of the police and now even military are corrupt anyway. If Mexico doesn't want to step up and fight fire with fire, maybe at least our country can set an example when it leaks onto our side of the border.

[EvB]

perform record levels of capital punishment

Problem:  People executed for crimes they did not commit.

I don't have a problem with capital punishment for people we can be SURE committed a capital crime.  But, guess what?  We can't.

[Frys Girl]

Problem:  People executed for crimes they did not commit.

I don't have a problem with capital punishment for people we can be SURE committed a capital crime.  But, guess what?  We can't.

We can never be sure of much. But when some guy does that to his body, rapes and murders and steals a few cars, shoots some random people for 100 bucks. It's time to die! I'm sorry. This world is going nuts. Too many people. Trim the herd is not bad.

BTW EvB, that picture is giving me nightmares. But those guys are in lock up the show. They do some of the craziest shit I have ever seen. Ugh.

[EvB]

We can never be sure of much. But when some guy does that to his body, rapes and murders and steals a few cars, shoots some random people for 100 bucks. It's time to die! I'm sorry. This world is going nuts. Too many people. Trim the herd is not bad.

BTW EvB, that picture is giving me nightmares. But those guys are in lock up the show. They do some of the craziest shit I have ever seen. Ugh.

Well, I'm not sure I can even come close to agreeing that "body art" (even if it's not to my taste) is a crime  -- but the rest?  Sure.  Now, prove, REALLY PROVE, beyond any doubt, that you have the person who did that -- and I'll say "yep, time to recycle that one."

Bio-technology is improving and, as it does, we can be more sure.  But as things stand, we really can't.  Please understand that when i say "beyond a doubt" I don't mean that in the "instructions to the jury" sense of the phrase.

This BLOG POST may give you better idea of what I'm talking about.

As for trimming the herd, the problem there is who gets trimmed and who decides. 

[Centurion73]

Dude MS 13 is the kind of gang that rapes women for initiations. I mean, I'm not saying other gangs are playing tic tac toe, but isn't that a little weird?

Sorry to say that it is not weird but it should be but its not, gangs have been doing that for a long time. What we should think is weird is that "we" as a society have created a class of young women/women that think it is "normal" to be "sexed in" to a gang as a badge of honor. Worse yet they may even be "sexed in" with a member that is known or believed to be HIV+ just to be affiliated with the gang, sad.

Maybe they should even build special prisons/holding facilities for these people with absolutely no way to connect to the outside world. No phone calls, no visitors. Solitary confinement 24/7.

They do have these but very few people are in this type of confinement and the judge/government have to set it up because it "appears" to violate the Constitution. The most is 23 hr confinement but then they are in a confined rec yard alone for an hr a day, 10 minute shower every 3 days, 1 phone call a week or month to their lawyer only. But that is a very select few that are in this, most states/fed prisons you MUST allow contact visits, phones, they are criminals but they still retain some rights its a very delicate dance and for greater minds than my limited one for sure.

[Centurion73]

Bio-technology is improving and, as it does, we can be more sure.  But as things stand, we really can't.

Any test or technology is inherently designed to fail as long as humans are involved. Evidence will always be manipulated, structured, to say whatever those in power want. Did you know it is NOT illegal to keep evidence silent that would prove a person innocent, it is NOT illegal for the police to lie to you to get you to make a statement.

[haloedorchid]

Whatever the justice system is doing now to correct this problem is not working, that's why I am suggesting to step it up, a LOT. These animals don't have any qualms about murdering someone or ruining lives as long as they get to their bottom line, which is always power and money. So why should average citizens have a problem in treating them like garbage to keep them off of the streets and away from the general population. If there are separate facilities currently being used strictly for drug cartel members, the standards need to be set even lower than what they currently are.

It's going to take a radical approach to control this problem, as much as it can be controlled. There will always be a criminal element around no matter how severe the punishments are. I think something just needs to be done to make the drug trade as unappealing as possible.

And if a few "innocents" (innocent meaning not guilty of murder, but likely guilty of assault, theft, rape, a whole host of other crimes associated with drug gang activity) get taken out in the process, consider it a preemptive strike.

[haloedorchid]

As far as gang members raping women for initiation.. who's to say that's not exactly what is happening to all those dead young women found on the outskirts of Ciudad Juarez, Mexico? There have been hundreds of victims found beaten, raped, and murdered in the desert. These gang members probably kidnap them while they walk home, take them to abandoned locations, gang rape them, then torture them until the death to prove their manhood and ability to do anything for their gang family.

[Centurion73]

So why should average citizens have a problem in treating them like garbage to keep them off of the streets and away from the general population. If there are separate facilities currently being used strictly for drug cartel members, the standards need to be set even lower than what they currently are.
 
And if a few "innocents" (innocent meaning not guilty of murder, but likely guilty of assault, theft, rape, a whole host of other crimes associated with drug gang activity) get taken out in the process, consider it a preemptive strike.

For Mexico I say fine, go ahead do it, knock yourself out but not here. In America we have something called the Constitution that kind of frowns  on law enforcement taking these actions. Now you can change the rules by changing the legislation but and applying heat to legislatures but don't hold your breath.

As far as gang members raping women for initiation.. who's to say that's not exactly what is happening to all those dead young women found on the outskirts of Ciudad Juarez, Mexico?

Doubtful but could be as you think, more likely Coyotes in the area.

[haloedorchid]

Yeah, it's never going to change. But it needs to.

[Pirate King Atomsk]

I say if they cross the border, shoot them on sight. The rest of the cabrons would get the message pretty fast.

[Centurion73]

I say if they cross the border, shoot them on sight. The rest of the cabrons would get the message pretty fast.

PKA for Homeland Security Director !!!

Please donate to the PKA Fund because a bullet is a terrible thing to waste 

[Frys Girl]

PKA for Homeland Security Director !!!

Please donate to the PKA Fund because a bullet is a terrible thing to waste 

Dude they don't even shoot them on the border in Iran or Iraq LOL. It is a little too East Germany for me. But I can stay it's not too bad considering the desperate times. BTW an arrest warrant is out for the guy who killed Chandra Levy (she was murdered in the park by my house. where i like to run and walk and YES birdwatch). Last summer the Post ran a series about solving the case (she was having an affair with a democratic congressman bla bla bla) in addition to some pot plants (not so bad actually) that some turtle with a backpack camera found. I haven't been back to the park since (alone). We have LOTS of illegals here. I'm not really into hisPANIC, but during these times, who the F knows. Anyone could be a killer for a pair of freaking shoes!

[EvB]

I say if they cross the border, shoot them on sight. The rest of the cabrons would get the message pretty fast.

But then what WOULD all those society matrons and the few manufacturers who still operate in the US do for cheep labor?  Let's face it, it's allowed to go on becuase it creates a modern version of serfdom.

[Frys Girl]

But then what WOULD all those society matrons and the few manufacturers who still operate in the US do for cheep labor?  Let's face it, it's allowed to go on becuase it creates a modern version of serfdom.

EVB!! hahahaha. here all the republicans were all over this housing boom here in DC/Northern VA/MD. If there was land, they built on it. Now most of them are empty and yuck, but what's funny is most of that stuff was built by illegals who waited at Home Depot. Republicans = no plan, just do it!!
Well now we have all these illegals living around here, doing crimes, joining gangs (MS 13 is huge here).

BTW isn't it so funny when a politician resigns over an "illegal nanny"?

[EvB]

BTW isn't it so funny when a politician resigns over an "illegal nanny"?

Funny or disgusting, depending on my mood.