Topic: Asperger's Syndrome

[Frys Girl]

Have you known people with it? How do you deal with it? HELP!

[EvB]

Have you known people with it? How do you deal with it? HELP!

Yes.  And, it's not easy to deal.  There are varying degrees of this disorder, and they range from someone who simply seems to be an uber-geek with a one track mind (going on and on about their particular interests without an awareness of your interest or ability to follow them) to people who seem to be from some other planet, with almost no awareness of what is going on here and now.

The primary issue with this syndrome is an inability on the part of the sufferer (and trust me, they do suffer, particularly when young) to perceive and understand social cues.  (IOW:  They cannot, literally CANNOT, take a hint) This goes way beyond social awkwardness.

 How you deal with it depends mostly on:

• The specific behaviors that are causing problems (and the degree)
• Your relationship with the person
• What your goals are for "dealing"

There are Asperger's syndrome support forums online where you may be able to get some help.  Do be delicate, though, since many of the participants themselves have Asperger's.

I'm not an expert.  I do have two nephews diagnosed with this syndrome and they are very very different. Also, anyone who works in a high tech field is going to have to deal with their share of "Aspies" -- they are often (usually) exceptionally bright (other than in social skills) and have an amazing ability to focus on complicated details which make them terrific engineers, computer scientists and so on - as long as they and their coworkers can keep things on an even keel. 

May I ask what the context and challenge is?  If this is a student of yours - go to the support people in your school.  There may be a specific plan for this person and consistency is important.

Meanwhile, take a look HERE.

[Frys Girl]

I've got a student who I suspect has it. The university hasn't told me whether he has it, which is completely idiotic. I have had so many problems with him and I am not sure how to deal with it. He's not supposed to be in my class, but he slid in because the registrar did not check the student prerequisites and that....

So now it's past add/drop and I need to find a way to control him and his behavior.

[Frys Girl]

I'm also using youtube to find more information.

It has been VERY helpful. I can't believe the schools keep this information private.

[EvB]

I'm also using youtube to find more information.

It has been VERY helpful. I can't believe the schools keep this information private.

I can - and I approve.  I have disabilities that effect my schoolwork at times.  My instructors have absolutely no right to the details.  NONE.  What they have a right to is to know what it is that I need from them.  Period.  More than that, it's up to me to tell.  In my case, I find that in most cases it's to my benefit to tell some details.  It helps me get what I really need with the least aggravation for all concerned. (So for example - part of my profile is adult ADD.  Whenever ADD is an issue, "extra time for testing" is always one of the accommodation options.  But I'm a good test-taker.  If I can't do what's put before me in the time allowed, it's likely I won't be able to do it at all. So, I choose to have conversations at the start of the semester on what I really need, and a bit of why. Operative term: "I choose."

It's not one-sided though  - there is this:  If a disabled student has not arranged for reasonable accommodations though the school disability office, then you have the right to treat him like any other student.  If he is disruptive - what is the school policy?  What are YOUR rights and the other student's rights in regard to any disruptive student?

If you think this guy is an aspie (don't use that term BTW -some find it offencive) you could go to the school disability office and present your concerns w/o names and ask them when your options are.  They may tell you to go to hell - but they may be helpful too.  Can't hurt to try.   If THAT dosn't work - the next step (im my expriance - I don't know your setup) is the ombuds office.

[Frys Girl]

I understand what you're saying. But to tell the teacher in my case would only help me teach him. I have been piecing this person together because he does not communicate with me, and the school has been indirect (AT BEST) about what the "issue" might be.

Accommodating his academic needs isn't the problem. I already understand that he needs extra time. My issue is the way he treats other students and even me. If I had been anyone else, by now he would have been kicked out of the class. But I've been patient and I'm 99% sure that he has a severe case (that sounds awful, I know) of asperger's.

It all makes sense NOW.

But I was waiting for this kid to show up with a gun. He has said some of the scariest and violent things I've ever heard in a classroom. But to learn that "aspies" can offend without knowing it, would have been a big help.

I'm not saying his health records should be released or that I should have to tell anyone. But had I known this sooner, I could have helped him. He doesn't even take notes in class. It took 2 weeks to figure out he needs a note taker. It's like no one has done a damn thing for this person and I'm very lost.

The rest of the class hates him. He annoys them and they laugh at everything he does. Now I see why he keeps walking into their traps - he has no damn clue that he's being a complete jackass. It's almost heartbreaking for me because he's an adult at least 18 years old.

The morning after the Super Bowl he walked into class and announced that he was going to get rid of a loan shark because of his SB bet. I thought he was insane. I think by not telling his teachers, this person is at a greater disadvantage.

[EvB]

Okay - like i said - it's not one-sided.  If "anyone else" would have been kicked to the curb - then whatever process brings that about should begin.

I know you are a very caring person.  He's lucky to have you as a teacher.  BUT - look at the bigger picture:  He is taking time and energy away from, well, HOW many other kids?  How is he effecting your growth as a new teacher?  And, how will THAT impact upon your future students, your future success.

If he has an ed plan - you should  know about it. If you don't - you are under no obligation to accommodate this person in any way. If you force his hand, or the hand of the administration, by taking a stand, you may serve to get this student more effective help in the future. 

I think  I missed the mark, when I came down so hard about privacy issues.  You MUST be informed of anyting that is necessary for you to do your job.  Where privacy comes in is where, if you had a kid who was diabetic, and were not told that this particular kid becomes verbally abusive at times (typical symptom of low blood sugar) and (depending on the students age) what to do if this occurs, then that woud be wrong.  You need that info.  What you don't ahve the "right" to (beucase of the specific stigmas directed towards specific disabilities) is to know why this occurs.  Now, most people woud much rather tell you they have problems with insulin control than let you belive they were stark raving mad.  But still, that part must be their choice.

Am I babling, or do you get what I'm trying to say here?

Your opinion, your feelings on the matter, seem absolutly appropriate to me.  And, in a kind world, we would likely do things your way.

Unfortuaatly, the world is not kind.

[Frys Girl]

Someone has already confronted him as being a "weirdo" and someone with "sick fetishes". I was already thinking of an emergency plan if he came at us with a weapon.

This Asperger's theory makes sense to me because he has not shown any emotion. He has said sick stuff and shown zero emotion. If he has AS, it would make sense.

I don't blame him though. The school has been a complete lazy asshole about this since the start of the semester. His counselor has been useless and slow about contacting me about other matters related to his accommodation. Also, the only reason this even came about as a possibility is that the dean said to me over the phone that "it might be an issue related to asperger's or maybe the student has stopped taking medicine."

haha. saying it by denying it.

Again, I fear that he was no even supposed to be in this class, so he's at an even greater disadvantage. Let me give you an example. I gave a quiz and he wrote NOTHING on his paper. He had 30 minutes.

I was angry, but kept it to myself. I figured it was another instance of him being a jerk and trying to bother me. Then he disappeared after I asked him to wait after class for us to go for his extra time. He just split. Then he emailed me, angry that I had "ditched him".

again, the AS makes sense. If I hadn't looked into it further, I would have done something terrible. But I called the dean to practically report him as a danger.

I haven't heard back, but the youtubes and web sites have made sense. I feel sorry for him because the school policy has clearly failed him.

[Frys Girl]

Oh and another thing about Asperger's - I think by itself it is fine. The people I've observed on youtube don't match the person I'm describing. I think my student has Asperger's WITH some other attention or anxiety issues. I think staring at a girl in class the way he does has nothing to do with AS, for example.

[EvB]

I think my student has Asperger's WITH some other attention or anxiety issues. I think staring at a girl in class the way he does has nothing to do with AS, for example.

I agree! and was about to say that myself.  This sounds like a touch of sociopathology to me.

[PhantasticSanShiSan]

Give him a tube of Aspercreme and a Quarter Pounder and tell him to think about it. Oh wait, they can't take hints.  My Bad.

Heartless, I know.  Now smile damn it!

[Michael Vandeven]

Give him a tube of Aspercreme and a Quarter Pounder and tell him to think about it. Oh wait, they can't take hints.  My Bad.

Heartless, I know.  Now smile damn it!

HAHA
finally, i feel like i have a door to jump into this conversation.

[EvB]

Geeeeze - I was wondering when one of you would chime in and lighten things up!   

[Frys Girl]

Well today this little pimple of a problem officially turned into a safety concern.

He has been exhibiting VA tech shooter behavior and today, he went on and on about how he wants to kill himself. He was very graphic and clear: "Burning down my house. Becoming homeless and doing crystal meth. Jumping off bridges. Poison?"

When I went to the counselor at school to demand he be taken out of class, she asked me "oh are you the math teacher?" HA HA ha. Nice. So this creep has been causing problems in other classes and these counselors were just sitting around sipping coffee and being bureaucrats.

She said that she will come take him out of class and intervene. I also told her he has to be evaluated. I don't even make 2 thousand dollars per class. This is NOT what teachers should have to deal with, especially after that a-hole in VA Tech killed everyone.

[EvB]

Fry's Girl,

Okay, that's WAAAAAAY over the top. This "pimple" may be an Aspie - but I promise you that is NOT his primary issue.  His primary issue is much more serious than that.  Aspies are pains in the ass who are much  more prone to self-harm than threats of violence. And, while they do seem to love the sound of their own voice - this drama-queen stuff doesn't fit the picture as I understand it.

I feel bad for him - but GET HIM OUT OF THERE.  I'd feel a whole lot worse for YOU if he made good on any of his threats.

[Centurion73]

From what you told me he does not fit the Asperger profile and the many I have dealt with, that is why I recommended a certified licensed mental health professional be contacted. Not to scare you but do not let down your guard if they do remove him.

[Frys Girl]

WOW. This thing has been moving at 500 miles per hour today. First of all, I'm sure this has NOTHING to do with Aspergers. This is something much more serious and unmanageable.

Here's what happened. I had to e-mail a detailed incident report. My big boss/ Dept. Chair emailed while he is away to say "this person has problems, big time, and we can't help him. I do not want him back in her class." That felt so good. Felt safe so to speak. BUT the Counselor wrote back all to say:
"he is not allowed back in class and must see a psychiatrist who must prove that he is not a threat to himself or others." That's bullshit. Do you know that idiot at VA tech had to see a bunch of therapists and docs. The schools still permitted him back in.

I will also say this: he will know that I was the one who reported him now because of the specific stuff relating to the "snuff" and suicide threats. He is also well um pakistani in background. I'm not racist or anything, but revenge killing/honor killing is pretty much accepted in Pakistani culture..... I had a girlfriend from pakistan who was involved in a horrible affair and she was scared of her parents - that her dad would kill her.

Could this be any worse of a job? I want to quit if he comes back. I'm basically a walking target.

I will say that I brought up the conceal carry today during a discussion about gun essays and I made a point to say "if there's an emergency, I have to run to the phone and call 911. Do you all think that is enough protection?" The phone is far away from me AND where he happens to sit.

Man. America needs to get it together in terms of controlling lunatics. The county also went to his house earlier today which means that his parents now know. Great. Older generational Pakistani anger. Shit. I'm sorry to all Pakistanis here.... By the way, if you want to know what I'm talking about go to youtube and look up the pakistani dancer Jhoomsi and see what the men write to her. Yekh.

[EvB]

His behavior should get him - to start with - a 72 hour hold on a psych ward.  After that - it's a crap shoot.  The fact is that most of the people on the front lines of the mental health system are shit-house-rat-crazy themselves.  Sad, but true.

Keep your guard up.  And hold your ground on the "he's not coming back in my class" thing.

Consider laying low on the gun talk unless you know your colleges well, though.  If things get even more tense, they may decide that you are a danger.

[Frys Girl]

No NO what I meant about the gun talk was this:
A student presented her topic saying "i'll argue that people should be allowed to have guns in schools in case of emergencies." I suggested to her to think about our class situation in her introductory paragraph - the damn phone is 25 feet away from me (way to plan school!). I suggested that she could use this as an example for her paper.
Oh no. I'll be honest and say that I took an envelope opener with me to class today JUST IN CASE. Even if I needed to use it, I think i would freak out too much to do it.

I hope he gets help. He truly needs it. I hope he doesn't come back. Please please please don't come back!

[Centurion73]

I will also say this: he will know that I was the one who reported him now because of the specific stuff relating to the "snuff" and suicide threats.

I told you days ago you had no choice to do it, you HAD to you're mandated to do it now you have to keep yourself safe and I suggested how.

I will say that I brought up the conceal carry today during a discussion about gun essays and I made a point to say "if there's an emergency, I have to run to the phone and call 911.

Sorry to say you should have not done this, do not ever let anyone know your policy on that ever again. You may have tipped someone off on that now even though it is basic info keep that shit inside your head.

If you see him anywhere call the REAL POLICE/SHERIFF DEPT, unless your campus security are sworn, armed, police or peace officers do not bother with them.

I would suggest that you file for a 30-60 day order of protection most judges will sign them in a case like this with no questions asked. That will be a sure way that he cannot come back to your class.

[Frys Girl]

This is a good tip - getting the protection order. What interesting about this is I was supposed to have told the class about the 9-1-1 policy the first day. I forgot. The policy is actually that someone is supposed to dial 9-1-1. It's interesting that you say people shouldn't know this. What a dumb policy.

Also, when I talked to the counselor and she told me that another teacher had contacted her - I was glad I wasn't the only one.

My class is so nice. Even if he's autistic or needing help, they would do it. But crying out like this is immature and sick. I'm not going to talk about this on here anymore because he's a big internet nerd and i wonder if he's googling stuff!

[Centurion73]

What interesting about this is I was supposed to have told the class about the 9-1-1 policy the first day. I forgot. The policy is actually that someone is supposed to dial 9-1-1. It's interesting that you say people shouldn't know this. What a dumb policy.

No, it is fine that they are told to dial 911 but they should not be told what your actions should be or your internal policy is all. A smart (and most offenders of that type are) person would decommission your class phone days before the event (commonly done). As you know how long it takes a school to fill a work or repair order it could be too late, do you even KNOW if that phone works? You should check the start of every class until you feel safe it should be checked weekly at least.

Call the local D.A's office for that jurisdiction and ask the court clerk how you can get an order of protection? Tell them you want it to cover all forms of communication, that means email as well. You might even be able to do it all over the phone, then if you do see or are contacted by him do not respond to it and call the local PD/Sheriff and they must arrest the individual.

[Frys Girl]

What happened to jails? What is wrong with locking someone in a cage? if a poor guinea pig can do it, so can this bastard.

[EvB]

What happened to jails? What is wrong with locking someone in a cage? if a poor guinea pig can do it, so can this bastard.

There are people who need hospitals more than jails.  There are prisons that cater to criminally insane. there are no perfect, or even GOOD options. 

In this case I'd say the order of business is:

• Put this guy someplace where he can't hurt anyone until they figure out what's up.
• Figure out what's up and help him if they can.

But MOST OF ALL keep OTHERS SAFE.

Unfortunately - the legal system, on many levels, is one huge game - points awarded - like with debate teams.  We'll just have to see who wins.

That said - FOLLOW CENTURION'S ADVICE TO THE LETTER.

I'd been hinting at such things, but don't know enough about the finer points of the game to do more than hint.  It seems he does. Listen to him.

[Frys Girl]

What a sad mess. What a terrible sad mess. I talked to two counselors who are convinced that he has depression and autism. The rub is, he has not filed any kind of disability info with the school about autism - i.e. he has not been diagnosed. I have no idea what is causing so much autism, but the counselors told me that the school has a lot of these students and she actually hopes that they will not be in traditional classes. What the hell is in the water? What is causing so much autism? I've been reading so much about this today that I am thinking back and diagnosing people from my past! My ex boyfriend might have been autistic!

Anyway, I feel very sorry for this kid because he's legally an adult, the school has banned him and his parents are in denial that anything is wrong with him. He's basically a walking encyclopedia without the ability to apply that info to directions. EvB I'm sure this is interesting to you. You understand learning and teaching methods. What's interesting is how he told me 50 bazillion times about his favorite hobby : WIKIPEDIA. He told me that all he does is edit wikipedia pages. Whew. Wow. All I knew about Autism before this was that Jenny McCarthy had a son who had it. What a stress this has got to be on parents. How stupid of these parents not to take the steps to protecting himself.

When Cho killed those kids in VA tech, his parents said that they didn't know and that they were very sorry. If this kid doesn't get help, he will hurt someone.

I'm doing my official dean meeting Tuesday. Thankfully for me, since he has no official diagnosis, having him banned will be easy. You can't diagnose, treat, and establish a classroom strategy for someone this quickly. Shame on these parents! AAAH!

[EvB]

The problem with psych diagnosis and treatment as it is as much voo-doo as science. Perhaps more so.  So - it's hard to know who to trust.  Add to that the fact that the stigma is crippling, all by itself, never mind the disorder!  More - there is always the fear that once you get your kid lableled - the label may be worng (in fact - will LIKELY be worng!) yet foloow them their entire lives.  Worse (yes it gets worse) treatment of the wrong kind or in the wrong hands can make matters worse.  Given that you have less than a 50-50 chace of getting the right treatment form the right hands - particulalry the first time (or second, or third or . . .) you can see what a tough choice it is to make.

That said - NOTHING excuses the risks involved in allowing a person like this to walk the streets without efective treatment of some kind.  Feel sad, frustrated and angry.  I know I would.  But do what you need to do for yourself and the others to whom you are responsible.  Then, as soon as you can, let it go - and know there ARE no right choices. 

You've done the best you can - and more than many would or could have.

[Michael Vandeven]

Well today this little pimple of a problem officially turned into a safety concern.

if this cunt touches even one hair on your iranian head, i swear by god and baby jesus my wife and i will warm up the pickup and head for DC.

[Michael Vandeven]

Consider laying low on the gun talk unless you know your colleges well, though.  If things get even more tense, they may decide that you are a danger.

don't just lay low on the gun talk.  avoid it altogether.  NOBODY should know you have a gun.  however, you SHOULD have one.  everybody who is sane and law abiding should have one, regardless of the environment in which they work.  it might be against university policy to have a gun on the campus.  it's probably also against university policy to murder people on the property, so if some arse comes shooting, you have EVERY right to defend yourself and let people ask questions later.

summation:  if it is legal to conceal and carry where you are, DO IT.  tomorrow.  buy a gun, contact the sheriff's department, and ask them where you need to go in order to get certified for conceal carry.  then take your gun to a practice range with you and get comfortable with it.  learn to use it with the proficiency you use a fork or spoon.  only then are you worthy of carrying concealed.  you will possibly save the life of yourself or someone else.  fuck university policy.  it is usually more strict than the law which you must follow unfortunately.  if someone shoots up the place, school policy goes out the window.

don't plan to be a victim.

[Frys Girl]

if this cunt touches even one hair on your iranian head, i swear by god and baby jesus my wife and i will warm up the pickup and head for DC.

Thanks for the support. To be honest, it ain't HIM i'm worried about. It's the parents.....more specifically the father. Don't f around with Pakistanis. Anyway I ain't ending up on 48 hours. I'm going to get a protective order and he's going to be banned from class. The most I'm willing to do is grade his assignments by e-mail. He will send them to his guidance counselor.

[EvB]

The most I'm willing to do is grade his assignments by e-mail. He will send them to his guidance counselor.

Under the circumstances - I think that is very generous of you.